Author Topic: Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD  (Read 481 times)

Offline markheal

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Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD
« on: Friday 30 October 20 23:29 GMT (UK) »
I am keen to find the Death details for the father FREDERIC attending this 1866 baptism below.

I have yet to find a marriage for the parents Mary and Frederick.  Fred did not stay around as he was a Steward in the Royal Navy and by 1871 Mary had formed another partnership and named herself Mary BENNETT living in Southwark London.
By 1881 Edgar [now BENNETT] is back with his Mother.

Mary HENRY born Sligo ABT 1838-1908.

So far I have not been able to clearly follow Frederic in the Navy but he might have had two short prison sentences whilst in Australian waters.


Frederic CROCKFORD born 1838
FREDERIC CROCKFORD WESTBOURNE, Sussex,
BIRTH 12 JUL 1838 WESTBOURNE, Sussex, England

POSSIBLE DEATH 3 DEC 1917 Tasmania ??? Gold prospector ???

==============================
Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
Edgar CROCKFORD 1866

Name Edgarus Crockford
Age0
Birth Date10 Sep 1866
Baptism Date20 Sep 1866
Baptism Place St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Frederici Crockford
Mother: Maris Henry
ANSTRUTHER,Worldwide
BENNETT,
BRETT, Sligo
CARNEGIE,
CROCKFORD, Hampshire.
ELLIOT,
GAUNTLETT, Worldwide
HEAL, HEALE, HELE, Chew Magna, Somerset
HENRY, Sligo
MABEY, Dorset
POPE, London docklands,
STANDERWICK, Somerset,
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online Maiden Stone

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Re: Catholic Baptism 1866
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 31 October 20 00:12 GMT (UK) »
Where did you get the information that Frederick died in Tasmania?
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Offline markheal

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Re: Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 31 October 20 00:16 GMT (UK) »
Where did you get the information that Frederick died in Tasmania?

This is a speculation and only a possibility found by a slow process of elimination of all other men with similar birth names and birth year!


ANSTRUTHER,Worldwide
BENNETT,
BRETT, Sligo
CARNEGIE,
CROCKFORD, Hampshire.
ELLIOT,
GAUNTLETT, Worldwide
HEAL, HEALE, HELE, Chew Magna, Somerset
HENRY, Sligo
MABEY, Dorset
POPE, London docklands,
STANDERWICK, Somerset,
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Online Maiden Stone

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Re: Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 31 October 20 00:35 GMT (UK) »
I am keen to find the Death details for the father FREDERIC attending this 1866 baptism below.
There is no evidence that Frederick was at the baptism only that he was the father of Edgar. Who were godparents?
Were there other children of the relationship?
Have you found Fred on a census?
Have you tried the surname as Croxford or Crossfield?
Age recorded for death registration may have been approximate, especially for someone who died away from home and family.
 Who did Edgar name as his father when he married?
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Online CaroleW

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Re: Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 31 October 20 00:35 GMT (UK) »
Do you have a copy of Edgar's actual birth cert?  What occupation is given for Frederick?

Does the cert show Mary as nee Henry or just as Mary Henry?  If they did marry - could it have been in Ireland?

The birth details you give for Frederic - are they from English records or from the Tasmanian death records?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online CaroleW

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Re: Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 31 October 20 00:51 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the tree on Ancestry there appears to be a lot of name changes.  Apparently Edgar became surname Anstruther at some point.

From the info given in your post - we don't know that Frederick is the mariner listed in the 1861 census - unless his occ on Edgar's birth cert confirms that?
 
Same comment applies to the Australian death record re Fredericks birthyear/birthplace
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 31 October 20 01:05 GMT (UK) »
Does the cert show Mary as nee Henry or just as Mary Henry?  If they did marry - could it have been in Ireland?

I looked at civil marriage registrations in Ireland 1845-1870 on Irish Genealogy.ie  No marriage for Frederick Crockford. However, if they married in a Catholic church in Ireland before 1864 there wouldn't have been a civil record.
2 children of Henry Crockford, a boatman with the Coastguard service,  of Ardmore, County Waterford, were registered in Youghal district, Aquila 1866 and John 1868. Mother was Ellen (RYAN). I wondered if Henry might have been a relative, as they had seafaring in common . Crockford was an uncommon surname in Ireland.
I checked for a death of Frederick Crockford in Ireland but found none.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
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Offline markheal

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Re: Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 31 October 20 01:41 GMT (UK) »
I am keen to find the Death details for the father FREDERIC attending this 1866 baptism below.

There is no evidence that Frederick was at the baptism only that he was the father of Edgar. Who were godparents?
Were there other children of the relationship?
Have you found Fred on a census?
Have you tried the surname as Croxford or Crossfield?
Age recorded for death registration may have been approximate, especially for someone who died away from home and family.
 Who did Edgar name as his father when he married?

Thank you for your careful thoughts.

The baptism record does name Frederici and Maris separately but you are correct that he might not have actually been in attendance! I will take another look at the original birth certificate. 

Interestingly, Edgar's birth was registered by Mary's Mother Ann HENRY 'present at birth' her address is 22 Great Orford Street, Liverpool but Edgar's birth place is given as 13 Pembroke Gardens, Liverpool.
So ALL the information seems to have come from the mother Ann and may have been wishful thinking that her pregnant daughter 'Mary CROCKFORD formerly HENRY' was actually married!  Yes could be an Irish marriage or even in New York as this Sligo family had recently returned to Liverpool from about 10 years living in NY.NY.  As a Catholic she might have refrained from a bigamous marriage with her next partner Robert George BENNETT.
=====
No Godparents mentioned from this online record.
No other children found [so far] from this relationship but I have only found Edgar in 1881 and he appeared not to fit well with his other step-siblings.

Name Edgarus Crockford
Age0
Birth Date10 Sep 1866
Baptism Date20 Sep 1866
Baptism Place St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Frederici Crockford
Mother: Maris Henry
================
Fred is on all 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses.
I have not looked for alternative spellings as there are already plenty of Fred CROCKFORDS to research!  He might have married in Tasmania to:
 
Jane Elizabeth Smillie
18481933
BIRTH 15 FEB 1848 Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
DEATH 07 APR 1933 Carr Villa Cemetery, Launceston
daughter of:
Stewart Smillie 7yrs transportation
18131885
BIRTH 30 DEC 1813 Edinburgh Scotland
DEATH 16 DEC 1885 Adelaide, South Australia
===============
Jane was previously married to:
Henry Walmesly   
Marriage   
year city, Tasmania   
Spouse   
Jane Smilllie
with:
Two WALMESLY children.
================
Edgar served in RMLI, did not marry, died alone 1908 in Hastings [inquest], occupation Valet.
ANSTRUTHER,Worldwide
BENNETT,
BRETT, Sligo
CARNEGIE,
CROCKFORD, Hampshire.
ELLIOT,
GAUNTLETT, Worldwide
HEAL, HEALE, HELE, Chew Magna, Somerset
HENRY, Sligo
MABEY, Dorset
POPE, London docklands,
STANDERWICK, Somerset,
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline markheal

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Re: Liverpool Catholic Baptism Sep 1866. Father: Frederic CROCKFORD
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 31 October 20 01:57 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the tree on Ancestry there appears to be a lot of name changes.  Apparently Edgar became surname Anstruther at some point.

From the info given in your post - we don't know that Frederick is the mariner listed in the 1861 census - unless his occ on Edgar's birth cert confirms that?
 
Same comment applies to the Australian death record re Fredericks birthyear/birthplace
Greetings Carole,
Yes, Lots of lies, self deception and erroneous myth in this CROCKFORD/BENNETT/ANSTRUTHER family.  That why I was trying to limit this query to Edgar's father!
Frederic's occupation on Edgar's birth certificate is "Ship Steward'.
Fred is also on 1841, 1851 and in the Navy 1861 as Ord seaman.
I do not have the death cert from Australia as this death is my research speculation and I do not really have a clear continuous set of records [yet].
ANSTRUTHER,Worldwide
BENNETT,
BRETT, Sligo
CARNEGIE,
CROCKFORD, Hampshire.
ELLIOT,
GAUNTLETT, Worldwide
HEAL, HEALE, HELE, Chew Magna, Somerset
HENRY, Sligo
MABEY, Dorset
POPE, London docklands,
STANDERWICK, Somerset,
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk