Author Topic: Was there a purge ?  (Read 809 times)

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Was there a purge ?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 03 November 20 21:08 GMT (UK) »
Can you name the streets and some of the couples maybe direct descendants or locals will come up with more theories

Its fascinating
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Was there a purge ?
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 11:14 GMT (UK) »
If you are doing the transcribing, presumably you can tell if there was a change of incumbent?
I think this is probably the answer.  From 1872 onwards the most frequent celebrant was Patricius O'Donovan; some other names appear, presumably the equivalent of curates.  In August 1885 Patricius Power appears for the first time (surname maybe significant?) and takes over the senior role although PO'D still puts in occasional appearances.  Maybe he retired but continued as a locum.  PP looks like a new broom.

This is part of the 1851 map of inner Liverpool.  The streets mentioned most often are Blackstock St and adjacent streets to north and south.  The church was St.Brigid's on Bevington Hill. just south of Currie Street.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Was there a purge ?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 11:28 GMT (UK) »
Is this St John's Kirkdale? The new church was officially opened in mid-November 1885 but perhaps it was opened for weddings a few weeks earlier. A newspaper article mentions "their hard working pastor Father Power".

Liverpool Mercury 23 November 1885, page 8, col 3
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Was there a purge ?
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 12:26 GMT (UK) »
Aha - looking at the (usually busy) register of St John's Kirkdale there were no marriages there between 6 October and 23 November 1885. So perhaps there was a temporary arrangement for St John's parishioners to be married at St Brigid's pending consecration of their new church.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Was there a purge ?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 15:22 GMT (UK) »
Ah, that must be it, Shaun.  When I move on further with the transcript I shall expect to see Patricius Power return to home base ?  Doesn't seem to explain the sudden drop-off in marriages ten years earlier ...

Just checked most of 1886/87 - Joannis Hickey seems to be in charge, but Frs Power and O'Donovan pop up from time to time.  Presumably priests of neighbouring churches would 'play away' sometimes to cover, or maybe at the request of bride or groom.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline BashLad

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Re: Was there a purge ?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 06 November 20 17:55 GMT (UK) »
...an Irish ghetto.... a den of iniquity
I actually laughed aloud. This is literally what the area was; a disease ridden hellhole. Social campaigners were aware of how awful the area was in the 1880s and were investigating and publicising the issues despite the laissez-faire attitude in charge although I'm not aware of any specific projects as such.

If you're invested in the area one commission published a series of articles published in the liverpool daily post in 1883 called "Squalid Liverpool" which was later published as a pamphlet and, incidentally, you can buy reprints online for a few quid.

There are a couple of pages which comment on the catholic church - I think they give an idea of the challenges facing the area.

WHITEHOUSE- Bromsgrove, WANE - Eccleston, TOWERS - Blackburn & Ribble Valley, COLLINGE - Rawtenstall, THOMAS - Penzance, Whitehaven, Haslingden.

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Was there a purge ?
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 08 November 20 17:35 GMT (UK) »
Aha - looking at the (usually busy) register of St John's Kirkdale there were no marriages there between 6 October and 23 November 1885. So perhaps there was a temporary arrangement for St John's parishioners to be married at St Brigid's pending consecration of their new church.
Although I think this must be the explanation, I have looked again at the St.Brigid's records during those seven weeks.  Without exception the partners give addresses in the 'ghetto' streets, as usual. I would have expected a few 'foreigners' if they represent marriages from St.John's ?
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young