Author Topic: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?  (Read 500 times)

Offline hilarykellis

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Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« on: Tuesday 03 November 20 01:06 GMT (UK) »
I am so confused. Through DNA, I've identified Charles/Carl Hebner/Hubner as a candidate for my mother's mystery great-great grandfather (her great-great grandmother had her great-grandfather, Anthony, out of wedlock in Nov 1862 in Kenton, Northumberland and the father's name is not listed on the certificate).

But he is making my head spin. Per my DNA matches' family trees, he was born in Prussia in 1832 and married Elizabeth Atkinson in Sunderland, Durham in 1856. Elizabeth is home alone as "Ship carpenter's wife" in the 1861 census and Charles/Carl is nowhere to be found. They are together in subsequent censuses and appear to have a few children, and she dies in 1885.

I did a search in the FindMyPast newspapers for him and was really confused to see two separate obituaries for wives of Charles Hebner of Sunderland: one in 1885 (Elizabeth) and one in 1876 (Lydia).

I then did a search and found 2 marriages: Carl Hubner and Lydia Belcham in 1862 in Sunderland district, and Charles Hubner and Elizabeth Atkinson in Sunderland in 1856.

Naturally, I would assume these were 2 different couples, but when I looked for census records, I found in 1871 two different families in Sunderland:
Charles   Hebner   Head   -   Male   30   1841   -   Scotland
Lydia   Hebner   Wife   -   Female   30   1841   -   -
Frederick F   Hebner   Son   -   Male   7   1864   -   Durham, England
Lydia   Hebner   Daughter   -   Female   5   1866   -   Durham, England
Frances B   Hebner   Daughter   -   Female   2   1869   -   Durham, England

And then:
Charles   Hebner   Head   -   Male   39   1832   -   Germany
Elizabeth   Hebner   Wife   -   Female   33   1838   -   Durham, England
Regina   Hebner   Daughter   -   Female   8   1863   -   Durham, England
Frederick W   Hebner   Son   -   Male   5   1866   -   Durham, England

But after 1871 I can only find 1 Charles Hebner anywhere in England. So are these two different people? His oldest son with Lydia, Frederick Fountain Belcham Hebner, doesn't re-appear until 1911 in Kent. His daughter Lydia appears in 1881 as a housemaid to another family in Sunderland. I cannot find Frances, his youngest, anywhere in 1881.

To make matters more confusing, Ancestry trees assign both these Charleses to the same parents in Pomerania, Germany so it seems I am not the only one confused. Any help sorting these people out is greatly appreciated and then I can get back to work on whether Charles could also have been the spurious father of Anthony!

Offline barryd

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Re: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 November 20 03:41 GMT (UK) »
Possibly some relationship below from wording from Ancestry - it let me freely google the wording below.


Potential photos and documents for Fountain Frederick Belcham Hebner

Offline trish1120

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Re: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 November 20 08:54 GMT (UK) »
I can see 2 in 1891

1891 Census
Durham
Charles Hebnor   55 Boilersmith born Holland
Elizth J Hebnor   60 Wife born Holland

1891 Census
Durham
Miles Patten   30
Regina Patten   28
Charles Patten   8
Frederick Patten   5
Florence Patten   1
Charles Hebner   60 Father in Law  Widr Seafaring born Preußen (image Prussia British Subject in brackets)
Elizabeth Hebner 12 Sister born Sunderland**

1881 Census
Elizabeth Hebner 43 Wife Mar
Regina Hebner 18
Frederick W. Hebner 15
Elizabeth Hebner 3
Sarah Ann Hebner 1***

HEBNER, SARAH  ANN mmn ATKINSON 
GRO Reference: 1879  D Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 548
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline trish1120

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Re: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 03 November 20 09:06 GMT (UK) »
1891 Census
Benwell, Northumberland
Fred Hebner   27 Head Mar Fitter Gun Shield maker born Sunderland
Tome Hebner   25 (Jane)
Lydie Hebner   7
Martha Hebner   4
Chas Hebner   3
Fred Hebner   1

1881 Census
Charles Hebner   43 Boilersmith born Heligoland
Elizabeth Hebner 51
Frederic Hebner   17 Engineers App (B M)
Martha Hebner   10

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Millmoor

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Re: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 03 November 20 09:54 GMT (UK) »
This is the death notice for Charles Hebner , the ship's carpenter, in 1914

Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette 15 June 1914.

At the Workhouse, on the 14th. inst., Charles Hebner. To be interred on Wednesday.

The Cemetery Registers on DRO also have this burial - birth year 1829.

He is easily found in the 1911 census. Try Familysearch if you cannot see him searching on Ancestry.


This is him in 1901.


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSC8-XDB


William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline fiddlerslass

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Re: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 03 November 20 10:58 GMT (UK) »
There is another death and spelling variant

Deaths Mar 1899   
Habner    Charles    56    Sunderland    10a   351

Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR & N. YKS,
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

Offline Millmoor

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Re: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 03 November 20 11:14 GMT (UK) »
DRO has the cemetery register for this Charles Hebner ( they have transcribed surname as Hebner). Abode given as 19 Back Ford Street. Birth year about 1843.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline fiddlerslass

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Re: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 03 November 20 11:37 GMT (UK) »
Frances Bell Hebner (mmn Belcham) died age  1871 Dec q Sunderland from freebmd. Abode 31 Woodbine Street from Durham records online index
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR & N. YKS,
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

Offline judith gorringe

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Re: Carl/Charles Hebner's multiple wives?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 03 June 21 14:18 BST (UK) »
Hi trish1120
Re; Charles Hebner
He was my great great grandfather too
Regina his daughter married Miles Patten, and they had my Gran Norah in 1906, she was the youngest of i think 6 children. Regina died when Gran was 3 and Miles dies when she was approx 12. would be lovely to chat about your side of the family...Judith