Author Topic: John Peter Burns  (Read 743 times)

Offline dunscore

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John Peter Burns
« on: Wednesday 04 November 20 06:04 GMT (UK) »
John Peter Burns' first marriage was to my Grandmother, Agnes Urie McDougall in 1896.  They had a daughter the following year who died aged 7 weeks.  John and Agnes divorced in 1900.  John was born in Chicago, Illinois c. 1869 and according to his Marriage Certificate, his parents were James and Catherine.

I know almost nothing about him other than that on his Marriage Cert. I have just received a Transcript for a John Peter Burns who was born in Illinois, USA who married a Margaret Flanagan c. 1907.  According to the Transcript, the children of the marriage were Theresa 32, (in 1942 when he died), Living and 2 females deceased.  Wondering if one of these females was Violet, the daughter he had with Agnes in 1897, although I assume not.  No previous marriage was shown on Transcript.

The fact that this John Peter Burns was born in Illinois, makes me think he is the right one, although  his parents were named as "Laurence Burns and Catherine Unknown".  Obviously depends on the knowledge of the Informant (who was his daughter Theresa).

I also obtained a Transcript for a Catherine Burns who died 1927.  The informant to her death was her daughter Agnes.  Her religion was given as Church of England (whereas John's was shown as RC). 

Catherine's spouse was James Burns (same name as given on John's marriage to Agnes McDougall in 1896).  The children of the marriage of Catherine and James were Agnes, Clara and Ruby, Living and 1 male and 3 females deceased.

John died in Alexandria Municipality and Catherine in Redfern Municipality.

Is this mother and son and can anyone shed any light on John in particular?

Dunscore

Offline maddys52

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Re: John Peter Burns
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 06:23 GMT (UK) »
You probably already have this - applied for naturalisation in 1934:

"I, JOHN PETER BURNS, known as Byrnes, of American nationality, born at Illinois, and resident fifty-five years in Australia, now residing at 237a Henderson Road, Alexandria, intend to apply for naturalisation under the Nationality Act, 1920-30."
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article246444357

His naturalisation papers are available in Canberra, you can request a copy,  (for a fee of AU$36.27).
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=1075283&isAv=N
 Not sure, but it could contain more info that would have been provided by the man himself.

Offline jorose

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Re: John Peter Burns
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 09:30 GMT (UK) »
Was the Catherine Burns died 1927 born in the US also? If not I think given that she doesn't list John as one her children that she's unlikely to be related.

Possibly children with Margaret Flanagan were born outside of marriage. Can't see them under Burns but these were born/died under Flanagan with no father's name given:
Hilda 1906 Newtown
Mary M 1907 Sydney died 1907 Sydney
Margaret A 1908 Sydney
Theresa M 1910 Sydney

I can't find a marriage for them :(

However by 1917 Mrs Margaret Burns is mentioned in funeral notices for her mother, Ann Flanagan:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15731611?searchTerm=%22Mrs%20Margaret%20Burns%22
(the Flanagan family were Catholic)

This may be a mention of them - John, Margaret and Theresa Burns involved in a car accident in 1941.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/160520399?searchTerm=%22Mrs%20Margaret%20Burns%22
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline dunscore

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Re: John Peter Burns
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 05 November 20 06:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jorose,

The Transcript I obtained for Catherine Burns who died in 1927 was born in Kent, England.  She had been in the Colony for 57 years.  She was aged 79 at death and had been married in Waterloo, Sydney.  Husband was James.  She was buried in the Church of England cemetery, Rookwood.

As she was married in Sydney and I think John Peter Burns arrived in Australia aged about 10 years, then this really does count her out as being his mother.

Thank you for the info of Margaret Burn's mother's funeral.  A death notice noting Margaret's husband as being John would have been helpful too!

The car accident where John, Margaret and Theresa Burns were involved is a possibility.  Thank you for that too.

A death notice for Margaret Burns could also be of some help!

Trying to find Theresa Burns (who was aged 32 when her father died in 1942) has not been easy either. 

It is also strange that John Peter Burns' father was shown as Laurence Burns on his death Transcript but on his marriage to Agnes McDougall, it is shown as "James" .    John's address was shown as 237a Henderson Rd. Alexandria.  His religion shown as RC but when he married Agnes, it was in a Congregational Church in Sydney!

Dunscore

Offline dunscore

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Re: John Peter Burns
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 05 November 20 06:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi Maddys52,

Thank you for the info re the application  for John Peter Burns'/Byrnes Naturalization in 1934.

This is something I could follow up as you suggest.

Dunscore

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: John Peter Burns
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 05 November 20 07:17 GMT (UK) »

Is this your family?

For each record, can you please list all the information on the document.

BDM NSW
marriage
4576/1896 BURNES   John P  marr. McDOUGALL  Agnes W  @ Sydney

death
6255/1927  BURNS Catherine  parents Patrick / Margaret    @ Redfern

death
29778/1942 BURNS John Peter parents Laurence / Catherine    @ Redfern

Offline maddys52

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Re: John Peter Burns
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 05 November 20 09:05 GMT (UK) »
There is this notice on 2 August 1939:

"Mr. JOHN BURNS and TESSIE, of 237a Henderson Road, Alexandria, desire to return their sincere THANKS to Father Breen, of Erskineville, and all their neighbours in their recent sad bereavement."
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article17601177

Modified to add:
I'm guessing this is for Margaret BURNS died 21 July 1939 registered at Redfern. Parents Patrick and Ann Esther.

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: John Peter Burns
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 05 November 20 10:11 GMT (UK) »
Rookwood Cemetery
http://search.catholiccemeteries.org.au/

BURNS   John P   73y  (buried)   07/11/1942   SEC*M2*16**288   Burial
BURNS   Margaret   68y   (buried)    22/07/1939   SEC*M2*16**288      Burial

Sydney Morning Herald
28 Jul 1939  p10
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17597684?
BYRNES.-July 27, 1939, Margaret Mary, dearly beloved wife of George Linden BYRNES and loved
mother of George, Frank, Margaret, Lawrence, and Jean. R.I.P.

Rookwood Cemetery(buried)
BYRNES   Margaret M   42y   (buried)   28/07/1939   SEC*M2*12**598
BYRNES   George L          57y    (buried)    02/07/1957   SEC*M2*12**597

We need to see the information on the certificates.

Offline dunscore

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John Peter Burns
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 13 October 21 04:37 BST (UK) »
I am trying to research my Grandmother's first husband.  She was Agnes Urie McDougall who married John Peter Burns in Sydney in 1896.   Their daughter was born in April 1897 but only lived 7 weeks.  They were divorced in 1900.
According to John Peter Burn's death transcript, he died in November 1942 in the Municipality of Alexandria and was buried in the RC section, Rookwood, 7 Nov 1942.
Again, on his Death Transcript, it says his Spouse was Margaret Flanagan. However, I cannot find a marriage for him to Margaret.  At his death, children of the marriage shows Theresa aged 32, Living and 2 females deceased.  If alive now, she would be 111.  I have found a birth of a Theresa in 1910 to a mother Margaret but no father mentioned.  Also 3 other girls whose mother was Margaret and no father's name given.  I am therefore wondering if in fact John Peter Burns did actually marry Margaret Flanagan.  John's "age at marriage" is shown as 35.  Interesting that his Death shows him as being Roman Catholic as when he married my Grandmother previously, they married at the Manse of the Congregational Minister in Sydney.
John Peter Burns was born in Illinois, USA.
Any help would be appreciated but I realise it is a long shot!
Dunscore