Author Topic: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898  (Read 342 times)

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« on: Wednesday 04 November 20 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi All

I have a hit a brick wall and exhausted my resources to trace a couple's Family and origins.

George William Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe? c.1863-1898.

I know that they married in the last quarter of 1884 in Northampton.
They had a son Albert Ernest Butler in about the same year.

George William Butler's parents were George Butler (birth and death unknown) and Ann Bithrey 1830-1901 from Turvey, Bedfordshire.

Letitia says she was born in Weedon, Northamptonshire in the 1891 Census but I can find no evidence of her birth anywhere.

Are you able to help, please?

Kind Regards
Kim

Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 62,505
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 17:47 GMT (UK) »
Does she name a father on the marriage cert?  Who were the witnesses?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 17:49 GMT (UK) »
It was a civil marriage and I only have the Marriage index which tells you nothing
Name:   George William Butler
Registration Year:   1884
Registration Quarter:   Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District:   Northampton
Parishes for this Registration District:   View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County:   Northamptonshire
Volume:   3b
Page:   197
Records on Page:   
Name
George William Butler
John Clarke
Louisa Hearns
Letitia Howe


Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 35,355
    • View Profile
Re: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 17:50 GMT (UK) »
Is this Albert
HOWE, ALBERT  ERNEST BANNISTER    (no mothers maiden surname on index) - 
GRO Reference: 1884  March Quarter in NORTHAMPTON  Volume 03B  Page 45
 
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 17:56 GMT (UK) »
OooH Could Be!

I don't have a birth registration for him. I will try this on for size definitely.


Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 18:05 GMT (UK) »
Is this Albert
HOWE, ALBERT  ERNEST BANNISTER    (no mothers maiden surname on index) - 
GRO Reference: 1884  March Quarter in NORTHAMPTON  Volume 03B  Page 45
 

I need to think allowed.

1. So Albert was born as the illegitimate child of Letty
2. Albert could be her father's name as George's father was George or Albert could be his biological father's name.
3. Bannister could be Her mother's maiden name?

What do you think?


Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 62,505
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 18:51 GMT (UK) »
You need to buy the 1884 marriage cert.  Everything is supposition without it
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 04 November 20 20:34 GMT (UK) »
I do. I just got excited. Thank you so much

Offline Annette7

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,229
    • View Profile
Re: George Butler 1861-1943 and Letitia Howe 1863-1898
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 05 November 20 17:02 GMT (UK) »
I think I have identified Letitia but it's a complicated story.

I wanted to find Letitia on 1881 census (3 years before her marriage) and eventually found this which intrigued me so followed back re. census, etc.:

1881 - 13 St Edmunds Sq, Northampton St Giles

David Young      47             Farm Labourer      born Tring, Hertfordshire
Jane Young        41                                        born Wendover, Buckinghamshire
Letitia H. Young  18    Shoe Machinist                         ditto
George B. Young  14   Shoe Rivetter                           ditto
Ann Butler     16   (a boarder)  Shoe Machinist   born Kingston on Thames

So, here is a Letitia H. of the right age, and a boarder named Butler (which may well be a red herring but possibly related to George Butler in some way).

I think that the enumerator may well have made an error with 1891 census and that 'Letty's' birthplace should read Wendover (Bucks) rather than Weedon (no Howe's in Weedon at all).

Rather than follow my tortuous route backwards I'll start with who I believe is Letitia's mother.

Surname is Pedel (but noted as all sorts including Piddle/Peadle/Peedle)

Jane Pedel bc.1840 Wendover, dau. of Joseph and Eleanor (can't find birth or baptism but on 1841/1851 census).   Joseph Piddle married Eleanor Barnett 21/6/1821 Wendover (their earlier children baptised but not younger ones).   I should mention here that there are a number of trees I've found on Ancestry who have muddled up 2 different Janes who were probably cousins.   Another Jane Pedel was bc.1836 Wendover, dau. of a James and Ann - James Piddle married Ann Mead 19/7/1819 Wendover - who remained single and later lived with her brothers, the younger ones births showing mmn as Mead.

Jane Pedel bc.1840 had 3 illegitimate children:

Ellen Matilda How Pedel - birth Mar.1859 Wycombe
Catherine Ann How Pedel - birth Dec.1860 Wycombe
Letitia How Pedel - birth Sept.1863 Wycombe.

I then think (as Pedder) Jane married a Henry Bye 15/1/1868 Marylebone, London - she must have been heavily pregnant as a son George Bye birth Mar.1868 Wycombe - mmn Pedel.

Now to 1871 census: shown as surname Bye and living in Tring we have Jane's 3 illeg. girls - Ellen Bye 12, Annie Bye 10 and Letitia Bye 8.   Ellen is shown as Head of the household with note shown (Parents gone to London).   So a 12 year old in sole charge of 2 younger sisters!!!!

1871 Finchley we find: Henry Bye 49 born Cirencester, Glos., Jane Bye 28 born Wendover, Bucks. and George Bye 3 born Wendover.

On 25/11/1878 a widowed Jane Bye married a David Young in Northampton.

This then brings us to the 1881 census which started this post.

So, Jane's 3 illegitimate daughters born as Pedel all had 'How' as a middle name - one would presume that a Mr. How was their father. (census shows there were How's, Howe's and Howes living in Wendover).  In 1871 they are shown as 'Bye' (surname of their mothers new husband), and in 1881 Letitia is now Letitia H. Young (surname of mothers second husband) and half-brother George Bye now shown as George B. Young.

As you can see, this sure is a complicated saga - why Letitia married as Letitia Howe (when her legal name was Letitia How(e) Pedel) I have no idea.   Interesting to know who she named as father (if given as Howe this could identify who he was in Wendover) or she may have left the details blank.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk