Author Topic: Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please  (Read 546 times)

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please
« on: Sunday 08 November 20 11:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
This is an Italian army uniform from WW1.  Could anyone please identify the regiment and the rank? 
Many thanks. 
Fide
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline MaxD

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I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 08 November 20 12:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi Max D

Many thanks for your suggestion and the reference link.  I'm not entirely convinced (yet).  A sottotenente would have 1 white star on each cuff.  My man has got chevrons on his cuffs. 

https://ww1photographs.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/an-italian-tenente/

https://ww1photographs.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/a-variant-of-italian-model-1909-uniform/

Maybe my guy is a caporale maggiore?  Equivalent to a lance corporal in the British army. But his shoulder straps indicate a junior officer or NCO.  His campaign medals suggest more experience than a L/C.   ???



Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline John915

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Re: Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 08 November 20 15:39 GMT (UK) »
Good afternoon,

The collar tabs denote the regt he was in, all have the single star on a colour. That style of tab in black says he was an artilleryman.

His rank is caporale, one wide one narrow chevron. Equivilent to our lance corporal I think, caporalemagiore is equivilent to our corporal.

John915
Stephens, Fuller, Tedham, Bennett, Ransome (Sussex)
Rider (Fulham)
Stephens (Somerset)
Kentfield (Essex)


Offline MaxD

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Re: Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 08 November 20 15:49 GMT (UK) »
T'was but a suggestion from a very shallow knowledge base on my part!  John915's indication of the  significance of collar as opposed to sleeve badges rings very true - complimenti!

MaxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline John915

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Re: Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 08 November 20 16:15 GMT (UK) »
Back again,

Thankyou Max but the kudo's go to mr google. I merely passed on his info for the OP.

F et F, rank and experience would have no bearing on his medals. Every one present would get them, unless of course they are bravery medals. But again, rank and experience would not matter.

John915
Stephens, Fuller, Tedham, Bennett, Ransome (Sussex)
Rider (Fulham)
Stephens (Somerset)
Kentfield (Essex)

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please
« Reply #6 on: Monday 09 November 20 09:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi John

Thanks for your input.  Yes, I believe you're right, he is a caporale or lance corporal.  He's wearing 2 chevrons -- 1 thick black V over 1 narrow black V.  The first diagram on Max's helpful link. 

Re: his regiment, still uncertain.  Many divisions of the Royal Italian Army wore that standing collar with black 'flame' patches, including infantry, cavalry and special crack troops such as the Arditi Assault Troops.   Only the colours of the stripes behind the black collar would reveal his regiment.  For that, I would have to get the photo restored to its original colours. 

I know that this man saw active service in Albania during WW1. 

"In May 1916, the Italian XVI Corps, some 100,000 men under the command of General Settimio Piacentini, returned and occupied the region of southern Albania by the autumn 1916." 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania_during_World_War_I

"In October 1918, the Italian XVI Corpo d' Armata (nearly four divisions, with even 2 Albanian volunteers battalions) conquered all north-central Albania from the Austrians"
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Italian_protectorate_over_Albania

The Corpo d'Armata was an infantry corps. 

Thanks for your tips about his medals. 
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please
« Reply #7 on: Monday 09 November 20 09:53 GMT (UK) »
Incidentally the 'flames' on his stand-up collar may look black because it's a B+W photo, but they could also be dark green (= an Alpine regiment) or dark red or crimson (= Bersaglieri regiment).

 
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

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Re: Italian Army WWI -- regiment & rank ID please
« Reply #8 on: Monday 09 November 20 10:45 GMT (UK) »
I have used a free online photo colourisation software and this is what I got. 
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe