Author Topic: Bigamist in the family  (Read 649 times)

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #9 on: Monday 09 November 20 14:07 GMT (UK) »
Albert is still living at the same address in the 1939 Register as he was in the 1911 census.  His wife and one of the children from the 1911 census are with him.

Have you tried tracing Albert via the electoral rolls?

On the face of it, the fact that he is still with his wife in the 1939 doesn't suggest bigamy.  However that's not to say that he didn't have another lady tucked away somewhere. 
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline trish1120

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #10 on: Monday 09 November 20 14:13 GMT (UK) »
1891 in Wandsworth;
Henry Ives 39 Head Mar  Gen Labourer born Hereford, Ross
Annie Ives   39 born Towsey, Berkshire
William Ives 16 Butcher
ALBERT Ives 13 born Westbourne, London*****
Thomas Ives 11
Walter Ives 10
Arthur Ives 3
Frederick Ives 1

IVES, WALTER  mmn DREWERY 
GRO Reference: 1881  S Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 568
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Dundee

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #11 on: Monday 09 November 20 14:52 GMT (UK) »
There is certainly something amiss.

Marriages Jun 1876

IVES, Annie Elizabeth        
PUDGE, Henry Albert
Kensington    1a   261

Fathers are William PUDGE, a Baker, and Amos IVES, a Farm Labourer.

I can't see any earlier marriage for Henry PUDGE.

PUDGE, THOMAS  ERNEST 
Mother's maiden surname: IVES   
GRO Reference: 1878  D Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 97

Thomas was baptised as IVES.

The following all with mother's maiden name as PUDGE:

IVES, HAROLD   
GRO Reference: 1883  D Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 92

IVES, WALTER  FRIDAY
GRO Reference: 1883  D Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 92

IVES, HAROLD
GRO Reference: 1885  J Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 696

IVES, ARTHUR
GRO Reference: 1888  J Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 731

IVES, FREDERICK  JOSEPH    
GRO Reference: 1890  M Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 754

IVES, ARTHUR  HAROLD      
GRO Reference: 1895  M Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 788

Debra  :)



Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #12 on: Monday 09 November 20 15:07 GMT (UK) »
If I have found the right family in 1881:-

Living at 8, Golborne Gardens, Kensington, London & Middlesex

Henry Ives born 1851 in Ross, Herefordshire, occ manager of coffee tavern
Anne Ives born 1851 in Thame, Oxfordshire
Albert Ives born 1870 in Kensington, Middlesex
Thomas Ives born 1881 in Kensington, Middlesex

No William listed as there was in the 1891.

No likely birth for Albert in Kensington

A possible for Thomas

IVES, THOMAS  ERNEST     HIDES 
GRO Reference: 1881  M Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 131

I cannot find any marriage between an Ives and a Hides in a suitable time frame.

In the 1891 that Trish found the family are living at Fishers Alley, Wandsworth, London & Surrey

Henry's birth year is given as 1854 Ross, Hereford, gen. lab. and Annie's as 1852 born in Buckinghamshire

William 1875, Albert 1878, Thomas 1880, Walter 1881, Arthur 1888 and Frederick 1890.  All children born London.

Birth records for these children seem to be difficult to find with any consistency of mother's maiden name.  Are any of them listed in any baptism records at all?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline Dundee

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #13 on: Monday 09 November 20 15:41 GMT (UK) »
He was born Henry Albert, not Albert Henry.

PUDGE, HENRY  ALBERT
Mother's maiden surname: HIVES     
GRO Reference: 1877  M Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 135 Marriages Dec 1839

....and William

HIVES, WILLIAM  GEORGE
Mother's maiden surname: PUDGE     
GRO Reference: 1874  D Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01A  Page 581

Father's birth:

PUDGE, ALBERT
Mother's maiden surname: PREECE     
GRO Reference: 1851  D Quarter in ROSS IN THE COUNTIES OF HEREFORD AND GLOUCESTER  Volume 26  Page 224

Marriages Dec 1839

PREECE, Jane       
PUDGE, William
Ross    26   297

Albert deserted from the Scots Fusiliers at London in 1873.

Debra  :)


Online BushInn1746

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #14 on: Monday 09 November 20 15:44 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all Iíve looked at the newspapers on findmypast but still nothing.

It was either
Albert Henry Ives 1876
Henry Ives 1852

Your Family England or Wales or ... can't see if you mean Scotland or one of the Islands (e.g. Isle of Man has its own Registry)?

Glasgow Evening Post, 2nd August 1879
A STRANGE CHARGE OF BIGAMY. Yesterday Henry Ives, described of no occupation, was brought before the Witham Justices, charged with intermarrying with Mary Ann Newsom, his first wife, Caroline Ives, being then alive.óThe first wife, Caroline Ives, who cried bitterly in court, said that she was married to the accused at Worthing, in Sussex in the year 1867. About the 6th of June 1877, he deserted her ...
 ----------
Not all newspapers are scanned and the scanning does not always read the names and place words correctly.

Mark

Offline Caitie777

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #15 on: Monday 09 November 20 16:05 GMT (UK) »
There is an Albert Henry in the 1911 living at 147 Garratt Lane Wandsworth, Wandsworth, London & Surrey with wife Sarah and four children.

Albert's occupation is given as dustman and his place of birth is Westbourne Park.

This appears to be Albert's marriage to Sarah

Marriages Sep 1900   
Holmes    Sarah Ann        Wandsworth    1d   1354    
Ives    Albert        Wandsworth    1d   1354   

So far I haven't found a birth record for him.

Does the above information tally with what you know of Albert?

Yes thatís him! Iím wondering if the story is just a Chinese whispers

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #16 on: Monday 09 November 20 16:25 GMT (UK) »
It seems from what BushInn has found that it was the father rather than the son.  Perhaps you need to check Scotland's people for any marriages for Henry?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Bigamist in the family
« Reply #17 on: Monday 09 November 20 16:36 GMT (UK) »
Ignore my remark about Scotland's People.  I just realised that the supposed marriage was in Sussex.  There is no record of one, so I don't know what Henry did to make Caroline think she had married him.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire