Help finding Annabel Nicholson

[JenB]

You don't half get complicated folk, Michael!

It’s his speciality 

That address looks like 48 Raglan Street to me.

[Tickettyboo]

I can't really explain the note on free BMD, at first I was wondering if for some reason she had put Charles' father instead of her own but his father was also called Charles. When I have checked I can't find anyone called John English anywhere near her on my tree, I don't think she would have known anyone called that through Charles' family.

Michael

We can't know for sure but after seeing so many errors on bmd records I think its possible that what is written down depends on what questions were asked, or how they were phrased.

If they were asked if they were both free to marry and answered (correctly) 'yes' then it may have been just assumed she was a spinster .

Having assumed that she was a spinster, when they asked the name and occupation of her father the answer may well have been 'He died but his name was John and he was a skipper'. (I agree with the previous posts about 'Hannah Isabella' being the most likely candidate) so his name was entered in the register as John English.

and I agree with JenB that it says Raglan Street on the Pension Index Card.


Boo

[Shiny1]

Hi All,

I'm afraid I'm going to complicate things again but I have made a bit of a development and confused myself again.

Have you seen the postem on the FreeBMD marriage entry for Isabella English and Robert Ramshaw in 1916?

St Mary, South Shields. 10 August 1916. Robert Ramshaw & Isabella English. Both 21. Bach & Spinster. Electrician. His res: Tyne Dock Hers: 18 Railway Street. Fathers: Henry Ramshaw - Chief Engineer (deceased) & John English (deceased)- Skipper

Seems very odd! If she had been born Nicholson married Charles English, then
A) she should be a widow on the record
B) How come her father is called John English?

You don't half get complicated folk, Michael!

Boo

Could this marriage be Charles's sister, Mary Isabella English, b. 25 Dec 1894 which matches the dob given on the 1939 register?

The problems with this are:

1. I had his sister down as marrying Elijah Bolham in Q1 1918
2. The register of soldiers effects dated 20th Aug 1919 quite clearly names Annabel Ramshaw as his widow.

Could Charles's sister Isabella have married Robert Ramshaw in 1916, they have split up and then Charles's widow has married Robert at some point before getting her pension leaving Charles's sister free to marry Elijah Bolham?

That doesn't explain the 1939 register which still implys it is Charles's sister still married to Robert but if that is the case why is his widow using her sister in law's married surname?

Maybe Robert had a brother for his recently widowed sister in law?

I think I might need certificates to clear this up.

Michael

[Tickettyboo]

Hi All,

I'm afraid I'm going to complicate things again but I have made a bit of a development and confused myself again.

St Mary, South Shields. 10 August 1916. Robert Ramshaw & Isabella English. Both 21. Bach & Spinster. Electrician. His res: Tyne Dock Hers: 18 Railway Street. Fathers: Henry Ramshaw - Chief Engineer (deceased) & John English (deceased)- Skipper

Could this marriage be Charles's sister, Mary Isabella English, b. 25 Dec 1894 which matches the dob given on the 1939 register?

Looking at your tree, Charles and Mary Isabella's parents were  Charles English and Mary (nee Hall) and she was born in North Shields.

GRO Births 1895 Q4 Tynemouth, Engliah, Mary Isabella , MMN Hall

so she was born in 1895, not 1894. and she does seem to have married Elijah Bolam, is alive and recorded on the 1939 register with him, died in 1940 aged 45 according to this death notice.

Check the 1939 Register again, the address in the death notice is a good clue (though both sites which have the entry, have transcribed the 'j' in her husband's first name as a 'z'.

Boo

[Tickettyboo]

Sorry (I always forget a bit)
According to your hypothesis:
Could Charles's sister Isabella have married Robert Ramshaw in 1916, they have split up and then Charles's widow has married Robert at some point before getting her pension leaving Charles's sister free to marry Elijah Bolham?

The National Archives say they have 100% of divorce case files 1917-1937 and you can search by name (though just get an index entry as they are not yet digitised).

I searched for Ramshaw and no Robert coming up. Which means that IF your hypothesis is correct Charles' sister  would not have been 'free' to marry Elijah Bolam - that marriage would have been bigamous.

Boo

[Shiny1]

Thanks for the help again Boo,

I have got myself tied in absolute knots with this now. I think tomorrow I need to get a big sheet of paper and try and draw / write everything out and see if I can put it into some sort of perspective.

Michael

[Tickettyboo]

I can't explain the entry on the register of effects which says Annabella Ramshaw, but I really do think there is enough evidence that this 'Annabella' and Charles' sister Mary Isabella were not the same person.

Boo

[Shiny1]

OK, thanks Boo.

I may just have to put this on my to do list then and when the libraries reopen I can get at the marriage registers for everyone and see what I can find.

Thanks for the help,

Michael

[JenB]

I may just have to put this on my to do list then and when the libraries reopen I can get at the marriage registers for everyone and see what I can find.

Hi Michael 

Just one thing - the 1910 Charles English - Annabel Nicholson marriage has the code number R 85 on the South Tyneside registrar's site.

This doesn't appear on their useful list of places of worship https://www.southtyneside.gov.uk/article/34819/Marriage-indexes so it's possible the prefix R might mean it was a Register Office wedding, in which case you could only get the details by purchasing the certificate.

I'm happy to be proved wrong but.....