Author Topic: Francis Joseph Moore - Uniform?  (Read 429 times)

Offline MJBatten

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Francis Joseph Moore - Uniform?
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 15 November 20 20:56 GMT (UK) »
Iím puzzled now. ARP makes sense too. I guess I will have to see if my grandmother remembers him as an ARP or working as a Commissionaire .
Thanks MJ

Offline tonepad

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Francis Joseph Moore - Uniform?
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 15 November 20 21:08 GMT (UK) »
I don't think ARP wardens would have had fancy epaulettes like FJM's. After further researtch, ARP warden could be a good shout! See the epaulettes in this photo: https://tinyurl.com/y4hw9cb3

It's tagged as an ARP warden but the helmet insignia looks like "LFB " - London Fire Brigade?

The Alamy photo is wrongly captioned, he is a fireman.
These are fire brigade metal epaulettes of the era:

http://www.stedmundsburychronicle.co.uk/firebrigade/lawson5.jpg


FJM is not in the ARP on the 1939 Register.
There is no ARP badge above his left breast pocket on the original photo.
Would say the braided epaulettes are more consistent with a Commissonaire.


Tony




Aucock/Aukett~Kent/Sussex, Bing~Kent, Broadway~Oxfordshire, Danks~Warwickshire, Fenn~Kent/Norfolk, Goatham~Kent, Hunt~Kent, Parker~Middlesex, Sellers~Kent/Yorkshire, Sladden~Kent, Wright~Kent/Essex

Offline MJBatten

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Francis Joseph Moore - Uniform?
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 15 November 20 21:13 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Tony,

Yes, there is no insignia on any of his uniform, so it make sense to be a commissionaire. Could have been before or after the War. He must have looked young for his age. He was born in 1884, but his second wife was born in 1904. Maybe the 1921 census will shed some light when it's out.

MJ


Offline FROGSMILE

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Francis Joseph Moore - Uniform?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 23 March 21 18:16 GMT (UK) »
Can anybody help me identify this uniform. I thought it look like Police, but he wasn't in the Police force and he was in WW1 in Welsh Fusiliers, but this looks much later than WW1. He is much older than he would have been in WW1. Any help would be great. He was in London during WW2. He moved from Wales in the 1920s.

MJ

I believe that heís a British cavalryman of a Hussar Regiment and wearing a blue patrol uniform that for light cavalry regiments (Hussars and Lancers) had the twisted shoulder cords that you see.  Although worn by some units, it wasnít a standard, across the board army practice to wear collar badges with that particular uniform (Blue Patrols) until after 1924, when the wearing of collar badges became universal for all regiments.  Plain buttons were a special feature of Hussar regiments and these were either shaped as balls (ball buttons), or convex, depending upon the type of uniform (full dress or undress, etc.) being worn. 

The special plain buttons on blue patrol uniforms were also worn by Yeomanry of the Territorial, part-time soldiers (in regiments that styled themselves as Hussars), as well as the Hussars of the regular army.  The infantry also wore blue patrol uniforms, as also did the artillery, engineers and army service corps, some favoured shoulder straps and some preferred the twisted cords seen here.

Offline MJBatten

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Francis Joseph Moore - Uniform?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 24 March 21 10:17 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Frogsmile. He was definitely in the Welsh Fusiliers in WW1 as I have his records. He moved to London in the 1920s. He was born in 1885, so I assumed he'd be too old for WW2 or any other military service after WW1. Could it be the Corps of Commissionaires? I just found some details about that. They have an archive, so asked if they have any records of him.

Thanks,

MJ

Offline FROGSMILE

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Francis Joseph Moore - Uniform?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 24 March 21 10:45 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Frogsmile. He was deifnitely in the Welsh Fusiliers in WW1 as I have his records. He moved to London in the 1920s. He was born in 1885, so I assumed he'd be too old for WW2 or any other military service after WW1. Could it be the Corps of Commissionaires? I just found some details about that. They have an archive, so asked if they have any records of him.

Thanks,

MJ

No itís definitely not Corps of Commissionaires.  Although they did have a similar shoulder cord at that time, the jacket had just one chest pocket and a ID serial number on the collar.  There was invariably also a black leather shoulder belt with badge when on duty.  For a WW1 veteran See: https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/sergeant-w-castle-of-the-corps-commissionaires-2137129a

Some pre war Yeomanry were converted to RWF battalions during WW1.  Might that fit?  The plain buttons are a big clue and were only worn by those styled as Hussars, who also used the twisted shoulder cord, whereas Corps of Commissionaires used a special button of their own.