Author Topic: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request  (Read 1210 times)

Offline Beatles78

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Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« on: Tuesday 17 November 20 04:37 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

I apologize up front for this message being so long winded. However, I have a lookup request on some Wills. My family and I have had a brick wall with our ancestor, Richard Hill, born in 1810 in "Yorkshire", England. (about the most descriptive place I have found as far as his birth location.)

What I know:

Richard Hill married Sarah Ann Chapman on 6 January 1843 in Parke County, IN.  Had 3 sons: George C Hill, Thomas, and James.

1900 census shows he arrived to America in 1840.
Naturalization Papers show he "reached" America on 16 June 1841.

Circumstantial Evidence: A Richard Hill was aboard the Barque Hope on 28 May 1841. Other passengers ended up living in the same town Richard did in Indiana. Including Chapmans (in laws) and Nelsons (possible extended family).

Found a possible baptism record showing a Richard Hill was baptized on 1/1/1811 in Hubberholme, England. Parents Thomas and Agnes Hill. (this fits the naming convention narrative of the times….first son born of Richard's (with Sarah) named after mother’s father (George C) and second son named after Richard’s father (Thomas).

Marriage bans were published on 10th, 17th & 24 April 1808 at Arncliffe for Thomas Hill & Agnes Nelson, but the marriage did not take place there – they married 30 Apr 1808 in Dent.
 
Baptised at Hubberholme chapel (Arncliffe) as sons of Thomas Hill:
 
21 May 1809 Leonard son of Thomas Hill of Cray, Farmer
1 Jan 1811 Richard son of Thomas Hill of Cray
13 Dec 1812 Thomas son of Thomas Hill of Deepdale
 
Agnes Nelson born 6 Sep 1788 d/o Richard & Ann….There is a burial in Dent 2 Mar 1815 for an Agnes Hill.
 
In 1841 there is a Thomas Hill aged 60 (rounded) Cattle Dealer at Buckden, Parish of Arncliffe On 20 Dec 1846 there is a burial at Hubberholme for Thomas Hill of Buckden, aged 69.
 
We were able to find record for Thomas Hill (Richard’s brother) and his family though. Thomas was baptised 1812 but his age is a bit all over the place in the census and he gives his place of birth as Horton, except for 1851 when he says Buckden. There is a marriage 19 Mar 1849 in Kettlewell, Yorkshire (about 5 miles from Buckden): Thomas Hill, of full age, Bachelor, Servant, Kettlewell. Father: Thomas Hill, Cattle Dealer - AND - Jane Walker, of full age, Spinster, Housekeeper?, Kettlewell. Father: Thomas Walker, Labourer. Witnesses: James Jaques & Elizabeth Walker. All were able to sign, except Jane. The witness James Jaques is interesting, as the record set "All West Yorkshire, England, Select Land Tax Records, 1704-1932" filtered for Buckden show land occupied by Thomas Hill 1808-1811 and owned by John Jaques. In 1850 Thomas & Jane have a son, who they name RICHARD HILL. Their first daughter, born in 1857, is named AGNES, after Thomas & Richard's mother (Jane's mother appears to be named Sarah). Agnes dies in 1860, and they name another daughter Agnes in 1862. The family can easily be found on Familysearch by searching for Richard Hill born 1848-1851 Kettlewell. In 1841 Thomas is here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQPW-NYV .

A James Nelson was on the Barque Hope passenger list. When look for him….

Looking for a James Nelson baptised in Dent around 1798 brings up this: 16 Aug 1797 James s/o Richard & Ann Nelson We don’t know Agnes Nelson’s YoB, but with a marriage in 1808 I’d expect around 1787, so there are these two, both in Dent 17 Feb 1783 d/o James & Alice 6 Sep 1788 d/o Richard & Ann So potentially James Nelson could be Richard Hill’s uncle, and they travelled together on the Barque Hope. Searching for the children travelling with James brings up this: Marriage 28 Dec 1825 Dent, James Nelson & Margaret Middlebrook 31 Oct 1826 Thomas s/o James & Margaret Nelson 11 Feb 1829 Alice Ann d/o James & Margaret Nelson 18 Nov 1831 William s/o James & Margaret Nelson 23 Apr 1837 (born c1834) Mary Ann d/o Ellen Nelson I can’t find a death/burial for Margaret, but in 1837 there is a marriage registered in Sedbergh Registration District (which includes Dent) between James NELSON & (same page) Jane CHAPMAN, followed by this baptism, in Dent 28 Oct 1838 Margaret d/o James & Jane Nelson This looks like her birth registration, followed by Agnes: NELSON, MARGARET mmn CHAPMAN GRO Ref: 1838 S Quarter in SEDBERGH Vol 23 Page 500 NELSON, AGNESS mmn CHAPMAN GRO Ref: 1841 M Quarter in SEDBERGH Vol 23 Page 535 A Richard Nelson, Farmer of BAZELBUSK (sic), Dent (Sedbergh Registration District) died in 1848 aged 82. According to FindmyPast he is included in the Probate Index for the Archdeaconry of Richmond with a probate date of 8 Mar 1849 (their reference R646/50).

Continued...

Offline Beatles78

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Re: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 04:37 GMT (UK) »
More circumstantial evidence:

Thomas Nelson (son of James) married Elizabeth Chapman, daughter of George Chapman & Elizabeth Burton - ie Sarah Ann Chapman/Hill's sister. http://www.ksgenweb.org/archives/1918ks/bion/nelsonwh.html The will of Elizabeth Chapman (nee Burton) also states that her daughter Mary F was married to William Nelson, another of James Nelson's sons. http://ingenweb.org/inparke/Probate/ProbateBox30Index.htm James Nelson was also a witness to George Chapman's will: http://ingenweb.org/inparke/ParkeCountyWillExtractsBook1.htm Jane Chapman/Nelson - James' 2nd wife - was George Chapman's niece, her parents being William Chapman & Mary Parrington. Elizabeth Chapman/Nelson died in 1917, Mary F Chapman/Nelson in 1913, and Jane Chapman/Nelson in 1912. So Richard Hill is very firmly linked to both the Nelsons and the Chapmans, and given the number of marriages between the two families it would be entirely in keeping for Richard to be James Nelson's nephew.


So a long winded question…does anyone have access to the following Wills?

James Nelson will: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4c93748c-89db-4c6a-a03c-dd2856e7ece
Richard Nelson’s Will: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/d7a70800-5133-49a8-b7f3-40d25fd17431

I'd love to see if there is any mention of a grandson Richard Hill of Indiana is on it. THAT would be definitive proof of the link…albeit very far fetched. 

In the 1846 Tithe records for Dent show Bazle Busk in the hamlet of Kerthwaite, Dent, with the Landowners listed as Rev John Sidgwick and John Hodgson. The 'Occupier' however, was RICHARD HILL. The Tithe document shows the extent of the land - pastures, meadows, dwelling house etc - was around 30 acres, and the full document includes a map showing the various 'parcels' of land. Possibly meaning Richard was the legal tenant rather than the physical occupier. Birchen Tree is to the right of the page (Where my Chapmans are from), and Basil Busk is to the left - about 3/4 mile away. You can use the blue transparency slider to see the area as it is now.  https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=54.27192&lon=-2.40692&layers=6&b=1
The numbers listed alongside each person relate to the pieces of land on the map, and as you can see, Basil Busk and Gibbs Hall are adjacent to each other, with Richard Hill's land ending at 1735, and Eleanor Burton's land (Gibbs Hall) starting at 1736 / 1737. Images of land here as well: https://www.geograph.org.uk/stuff/list.php?title=Basil+Busk&gridref=SD7386

If anyone can provide any thoughts or suggestions on how to definitively link these Richard Hills, that would be much appreciated!

Thank you,
Stephanie Hill (GGGGrandaughter of Richard Hill)

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 06:46 GMT (UK) »
You can get wills yourself ;D

See: https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

Once you have located the right entry on the National Probate Calendar, and checked that there actually was a will, you can order a copy of the will (cost £1.50).
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline rosie99

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Re: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 07:27 GMT (UK) »
So a long winded question…does anyone have access to the following Wills?

James Nelson will: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4c93748c-89db-4c6a-a03c-dd2856e7ece
Richard Nelson’s Will: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/d7a70800-5133-49a8-b7f3-40d25fd17431




Your first link is not working

2nd link says will is available from lancashire archives

https://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=W%2fRW%2fL%2fR646%2f50&pos=9

Item
Reference number   WRW/L/R646/50
Title   Probate records
Date   8 MAR 1849
Description   Testator's name: RICHARD NELSON
Occupation/status: FARMER
Minor place: BAZELBUSK
Township: DENT
Parish: SEDBERGH
County/Country: YORKSHIRE
Other information: None
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline KGarrad

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Re: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 08:01 GMT (UK) »
So, nothing to do with Richard Hill? As per subject header.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline rosie99

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Re: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 08:42 GMT (UK) »
So, nothing to do with Richard Hill? As per subject header.


To be honest KG I have not read the post, far too long for me to concentrate on  :)
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Offline Beatles78

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Re: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 13:40 GMT (UK) »
So, nothing to do with Richard Hill? As per subject header.

It has EVERYTHING to do with Richard Hill. Sorry for such a long post, but i'm trying to find a connection between my American Richard Hill ancestor and a Richard Hill that I found baptized on 1/1/1811 in Hubberholme. His in laws were from Dent, and this Richard Hill lived in that area. I'm hoping someone can connect the dots for me.

Offline Beatles78

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Re: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 13:42 GMT (UK) »
So a long winded question…does anyone have access to the following Wills?

James Nelson will: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4c93748c-89db-4c6a-a03c-dd2856e7ece
Richard Nelson’s Will: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/d7a70800-5133-49a8-b7f3-40d25fd17431




Your first link is not working

2nd link says will is available from lancashire archives

https://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=W%2fRW%2fL%2fR646%2f50&pos=9

Item
Reference number   WRW/L/R646/50
Title   Probate records
Date   8 MAR 1849
Description   Testator's name: RICHARD NELSON
Occupation/status: FARMER
Minor place: BAZELBUSK
Township: DENT
Parish: SEDBERGH
County/Country: YORKSHIRE
Other information: None


Great. That Will link was working before - that's the one I need because that is potentially his grandfather!

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Richard Hill - Born ~1810 Hubberholme, England - Wills lookup request
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Great. That Will link was working before - that's the one I need because that is potentially his grandfather!

Is this perhaps the document that you found earlier for James Nelson?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7169650

This is simply an abstract of the will, made for tax purposes. You can preview an image of the abstract, and/or download a copy of it, from that page, free of charge. It is likely to list most if not all of the beneficiaries.

The actual will of James Nelson, like the will of Richard Nelson (as noted above by rosie99), is at Lancashire Archives.

https://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=W%2fRW%2fL%2fR630%2f93&pos=46

Unfortunately, nobody will be able to access these wills for you right now. Lancashire Archives should be able to send you copies when they reopen, after the current lockdown. See my further reply below.

The will of James Nelson was proved in 1808, but you say Richard Hill was born in 1810, so it seems unlikely that he will be referenced in it.