Author Topic: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother  (Read 320 times)

Offline Elliebean54

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Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« on: Tuesday 17 November 20 13:47 GMT (UK) »
Hello everyone

Please feel free to move if this is the wrong place to post

I have a number of questions relating to my Great Grandmother Mary Ann Palmer. Sheís been the toughest brick wall for various members of my family researching over many years. I feel like she destined to only ever create more questions than answers.

I finally found her death certificate and she died of typhoid in a fever hospital in London in 1899. However thereís some unanswered questions still:

1. She was in the wrong part of London - there was a fever hospital in her doorstep in the East End yet she died in South London. Is there any reason a typhoid patient would be moved across the city or does it suggest she must have been in South London when she got infected?

2. Related to this no one else in her family got it - she had 5 young children at home and none were infected? Is that plausible? Does this also suggest she wasnít at home when infected? My understanding is it was highly contagious

3. Her infant son (18m) died of chronic malnutrition 2 weeks after her death in a general infirmary in the East End near the family home, yet the family were not so impoverished that the children should have starved. Again does this suggest she wasnít around to care for him?

You can probably see where Iím going with this. Thereís no underlying health conditions recorded on her death certificate.

Does it seem logical to anyone else that she had left the family home? Can anyone come up with another explanation?

A final point we still arenít certain who she was. Every official record suggests a different age (birth 1860-1872). How common was it for age to be recorded so incorrectly at this time?

Any input gratefully received


Online louisa maud

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Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 13:53 GMT (UK) »
Have you got her marriage certificate which would, or should show her father's name and perhaps witnesses that might be family members

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline Elliebean54

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Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 14:09 GMT (UK) »
Have you got her marriage certificate which would, or should show her father's name and perhaps witnesses that might be family members

Louisa Maud

Yes weíve actually got the original and it gives her alleged fathers name (Peter Palmer) but thereís no record of anyone of that name having a daughter of her name anywhere near that age/place.
The closest Iíve got is an uncle who was living with his brothers family and had a niece of roughly the right age who is my working hypothesis but I literally have 5 trees with different versions of who she could have been.

My hypothesis means she was 38 when she died, her marriage certificate suggests she would have been 32/33 when she died, her death certificate says she was 28, the 1891 census suggests she would have been 30  ???

To add complications the DNA suggests she must have had Hispanic and Roma background so she may have been moving around. We know from what both her husband and children looked like she was certainly very dark.


Online louisa maud

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Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 14:21 GMT (UK) »
Oh dear,not a great deal to go on really with the details you have
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline Elliebean54

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Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 14:48 GMT (UK) »
Oh dear,not a great deal to go on really with the details you have

Tell me about it!

To add in more confusion sheís recorded on the marriage certificate and 1891 census as Mary Ann, family history said no one called her Mary or Ann but something else, later records including her death certificate show Elizabeth Mary or Mary Elizabeth and the Ann disappears completely  :-\

At least in finding her death (certificate with husband name/occupation/address that proves it was her) we know she actually died roughly when she was supposed to, when until recently because of the name & age change - and it turns out wrong area of London as well - we didnít even know that for sure. Itís been a long old road

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 15:08 GMT (UK) »
Can you tell me what her married name was?  Where does she say she was born on the census records, or does that change with every one?

If her father doesn't appear to be Peter Palmer then that possibly suggests that she is illegitimate or Peter is some other member of the family.

What are her supposed birth years?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Online JenB

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Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 15:11 GMT (UK) »
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Elliebean54

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Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 17 November 20 15:26 GMT (UK) »
There is a long thread about Mary Ann here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784979.msg6400106

Thanks for posting that :) the informations on there for anyone who wants to look at her again with fresh eyes, though some of it might need to be updated - Iím on my way into work so I canít read through it now.

I was about to say thereís another thread re her identity somewhere on here from a while back - this was originally more about looking for information about typhoid and the circumstances around her death

Offline Elliebean54

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Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 18 November 20 13:04 GMT (UK) »
Back to typhoid - Iíve fine some digging as it was a legally notifiable disease and found some detailed online records regarding her home parish of Limehouse.
It lists numbers of people from the parish (specifically including those from who belonged to the parish but died elsewhere) who died of communicable disease and when.
Although 21 died of typhoid in 1899 no case was recorded as being contracted in the parish in April or May and she died 12th May. So it at least answers my question for whatever reason she wasnít living at home when she died

I have a number of questions relating to my Great Grandmother Mary Ann Palmer. Sheís been the toughest brick wall for various members of my family researching over many years. I feel like she destined to only ever create more questions than answers.

I finally found her death certificate and she died of typhoid in a fever hospital in London in 1899. However thereís some unanswered questions still:

1. She was in the wrong part of London - there was a fever hospital in her doorstep in the East End yet she died in South London. Is there any reason a typhoid patient would be moved across the city or does it suggest she must have been in South London when she got infected?

2. Related to this no one else in her family got it - she had 5 young children at home and none were infected? Is that plausible? Does this also suggest she wasnít at home when infected? My understanding is it was highly contagious

3. Her infant son (18m) died of chronic malnutrition 2 weeks after her death in a general infirmary in the East End near the family home, yet the family were not so impoverished that the children should have starved. Again does this suggest she wasnít around to care for him?

You can probably see where Iím going with this. Thereís no underlying health conditions recorded on her death certificate.

Does it seem logical to anyone else that she had left the family home? Can anyone come up with another explanation?

Any input gratefully received