Author Topic: illegitimate baby  (Read 1546 times)

Offline sylvieme

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #45 on: Monday 23 November 20 18:47 GMT (UK) »
sorry just saw the Brentford - I was so excited I missed it!

Offline Jo Harding

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #46 on: Tuesday 24 November 20 14:28 GMT (UK) »
It may be worth exploring the place(s) the baby would have been born in 1927. Am I right in thinking it was around Haslemere? There was no NHS in those days and I think mothers gave birth in cottage hospitals, or other maternity homes. This may be a help:

http://www.haslemere.com/hospitallof/history.pdf

There may be records for these places and you could establish if it is possible to see them. I am not sure if they would be closed for 100 years though.

Records might give information on the circumstances of her pregnancy and name of the father.

This has proved to be a successful line of approach in one case in my family. We found the maternity home the child was born in (in 1905) and they had records for this event. The records had quite a lot of detail, including the circumstances surrounding the baby being born and name of the father.

I am puzzled about the time the child lived with her adoptive mother. Do you know which years she was with her and where they were?

I think I would concentrate on finding the whereabouts of the child for the time being. Unless you have some evidence on the identity of the father, you may spend hours going along false trails.

The DNA test is another thing to pursue.

Jo


Offline sylvieme

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #47 on: Tuesday 24 November 20 18:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jo,
Have you been practising telepathy for long? I had exactly the same thought about hospitals this morning.

I found out a little bit about the cottage hospital, which some of the facts are duplicated in the article you sent but the League of Friends gives a lot more information, thanks for that - League of Friends hadn't even crossed my mind and they might be more willing to discuss the social aspects of it's history or even know if I can check any records or not. Brilliant.

I also went back to the address given on her birth certificate and found I may have made a mistake in my original thinking. There's a Heath Cottage (grade 2 listed since 1977) much closer to the town centre. Dene Road looks like it's now called Midhurst Road, with the end closest to Haslemere town (where the cottage is) being known as Shepherd's Hill. The cottage is one of those impossible to tell the exact age of (by an amateur) but is pretty old so probably would have been a bit ramshackle in the 1926.  Purely by coincidence the Cottage Hospital would have been well within walking distance!

The splendid article you linked me to also mentions a St George's maternity home but the dates on this might not be so good as for the cottage hospital. Still, it's a thought.

Who did you approach to enquire about the records for your relative?

Sadly I have no idea as to when she started to be cared for by the adoptive Mother. I know that from age 16 (1943) her first job was nearby to Southwater (near Horsham), and that when she took her own children to visit the adoptive Mother from around 1960 onwards she (the adoptive Mother) was living in Southwater. So if I've got the right person - although the adoptive Mother was living in Brighton, married and had her son registered there for some reason they left shortly afterwards and settled in Southwater. I've still got research to do on the husband's family to see if their roots lie in Southwater 1939 register does give a family of the right surname living there so it's possible, I just need to work out all the generations/connections.

Yes, finding the biological Father is very much a needle in a haystack job, and without any obvious connections (like financial support of some kind) I think I'm unlikely to find him.

The only thing which might give me a clue is if the possible Father has twins running through his family it could be a link to my relative as she had twins herself I've researched extensively through her birth Mother's side as well as her husband's side and the only twins I've found go back to the early 1800s on her husband's Paternal Grandmother's side so it's all a bit remote. But until I've found the link in the first place I'm not sure what DNA would tell me. (not that I actually have and DNA from my relative or anything to compare it to or am I missing something here?)


Offline brigidmac

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #48 on: Tuesday 24 November 20 20:15 GMT (UK) »
Quick answer re the dna .
Your dna would link you to descendants of shared great great.grandparents

If your relative had a dna test you would see mutual matches

Then youd have to look at their  matches which.did not match.you
Its a long slow process and only works if descendants from the other side have tested but people have been successful in calculating their birth.father
Parents birth.parents
Or even grandparents birth parents
My aunts dna did seem to prove that her great grandmothers birth father was the man named on scottish birth certificate as she.has matches  with.people of that surname

Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline sylvieme

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #49 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 09:48 GMT (UK) »
hmm, interesting. If I had DNA from a bunch of people I could maybe find the connections, but as you say it even sounds like a long process. And most of the people I'm looking at are long dead so I can't even think how I'd get hold of a sample for testing.

So my main objective still seems to be to find a strong possibility through all the usual research processes before I can consider this option.

But thanks for the explanation, I'll put it on the back burner.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #50 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 14:25 GMT (UK) »
For DNA to be successful it would need to come from a child/grandchild/g grandchild of your female relative born 1927

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Jo Harding

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #51 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 14:56 GMT (UK) »
The Surrey History Centre might be able to assist with hospitals etc and these links for this are:

https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/culture-and-leisure/history-centre

https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/culture-and-leisure/history-centre/online-records

I don't know if it is feasible for you to visit there when it reopens but they will give advice by telephone if necessary. It is possible they hold records for some of the places where she may have given birth.

The source of information for my relatives child was The Salvation Army as it was in their maternity home she had the baby. They kept records and the amount of information was quite staggering. It included the identity of the father, a solicitor in Brighton, plus the circumstances of her situation that resulted in her having the baby on her own. This child was placed in an orphanage and details of that were there along with much more.

Are you in touch with any living relatives, or descendants, of the lady who had the baby? Is it possible that information would have been passed down to them? Would anyone in the family have any old photos that might contain clues?

I presume the adoptive mother is deceased now. You mention she had a son, have you tried to trace him, or his family? It is highly likely that he/they would know something of the history here.

It would be possible for us to search for more information but we would need names and dates to go on. I appreciate is is tricky and you may not want to disclose these.

Jo

Jo


Offline sylvieme

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #52 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 17:04 GMT (UK) »
I did visit the Surrey History Centre when I first started looking into this. Admittedly I only went there once so probably didn't really get as much out of it as I could. In truth I was a bit overwhelmed as I hadn't got a clue about how it was organised or how to look for what I wanted, or even what kind of records they hold. At the time I was looking into the birth Mother's family to see if my relative had spent at least some of her childhood with them but they didn't have much on school records but I did also see the electoral roll for Haslemere.

I see from the links you sent that they are able to allow some digital access during the shutdown so I might be able to dig around a bit more from home.

The Salvation Army is another one of those things I hadn't thought about, they've done a lot of good works over the years, I'm glad they were able to help you.

The adoptive Mother's son seems even more elusive. I've only found a birth record for him, no marriage and obviously no census is applicable. The usual websites threw up a possible connection in Scotland as a company director which seems a little unlikely. I tried a trawl on Facebook but got nowhere with that possibly because I have so little to go on.

The birth Mother went on to have 7 more children and I traced one of her Granddaughters, we're now Facebook friends. She is pleased to hear any bits I manage to confirm but her own family has no interest in family history. Her Father (not a descendant) is still alive and may have photographs up in the attic but he doesn't want anyone digging around. I find this rather sad as the stories he could pass on now will be lost forever when he goes, but of course I must respect his wishes and those of the family.

For this reason I don't want to publish any family names and dates on the public chat forum but would be willing to share in a private chat, if that works for you?

Offline Jo Harding

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Re: illegitimate baby
« Reply #53 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 17:16 GMT (UK) »
Hello sylvieme,

Yes we could send details via PM, or another way if you prefer.

It is a shame you cannot persuade the widower of your relative to speak about the past and her life. Is there any way you could ask her granddaughter to broach this with him? She would be an ideal candidate for a DNA test too. Her daughters could be asked for information, have you tried this?

Jo