Author Topic: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?  (Read 2203 times)

Offline nicdigby

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #18 on: Monday 23 November 20 23:42 GMT (UK) »
sorry, pressed enter too soon.

For the Hockaday marriage, he was listed as a widower. Profession Victualler. Married at St Mary Islington, London. His father: Thomas Pearse, Brewer.

Next marriage:

6 Dec 1842 to Susannah ALLARD. He's listed as widowed. His father: Thomas.

Next marriage:

25 Jul 1859 to Jane STARR , a widow. He is listed as a marine store  dealer which is similar to the profession on his first marriage. This marriage was in Battersea.

But why is he listed as a widower on the first marriage I can find?

So I am looking for a marriage before July 1839. His dob is approx of 1816 (taken from Ancestry other member, I haven't verified his baptism yet).

Offline nicdigby

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #19 on: Monday 23 November 20 23:59 GMT (UK) »
I also cannot find the birth or baptism for Edmund.

I have found a baptism of a 13 yr old in Easton Wilts to Edmund Pearce or Pierce Father: Thomas and child born in 1816. Baptism date 25 Oct 1829. But then I see a marriage of Edmund Pearce in Easton, Wilts on Oct 18 1839. Father: Thomas. So the child's name and father's name fits but it cannot be this one because I have a record of Edmund Pearse (spelt correctly) ,marrying two months previously, to Mary Ann Hockaday in Islington, London. And on that marriage cert he is listed as widower.

Can't find Edmund Pearse's birth, baptism - or marriage prior to 1839. Would be grateful for your help.

Online amondg

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 24 November 20 00:20 GMT (UK) »
The marriage to Mary Ann Hockaday would be correct based on 1851 census. Child Ed./ Edmund born 1840 registered Greenwich mothers maiden name Hockerdy is living with them, Edmund is already with Jane.
Plus Jo. Tho.
Joseph John Starr 1844 reg.Frome Somerset mmn Withers although listed as Pearse is Jane' child from her first marriage.
Thomas Pearse Starr 1849 mmn Withers
Henry Pearse Star 1851.
--------
Thomas, Henry. Charlotte Jane, James all baptized as Pearse 8 June 1855. St. Mary, Pancras.
Charlotte Jane Pearse mmn Weathers reg. 1853 died 1856.

Offline nicdigby

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 24 November 20 00:30 GMT (UK) »
The marriage to Mary Ann Hockaday would be correct based on 1851 census. Child Ed./ Edmund born 1840 registered Greenwich mothers maiden name Hockerdy is living with them, Edmund is already with Jane.
Plus Jo. Tho.
Joseph John Starr 1844 reg.Frome Somerset mmn Withers although listed as Pearse is Jane' child from her first marriage.
Thomas Pearse Starr 1849 mmn Withers
Henry Pearse Star 1851.
--------
Thomas, Henry. Charlotte Jane, James all baptized as Pearse 8 June 1855. St. Mary, Pancras.
Charlotte Jane Pearse mmn Weathers reg. 1853 died 1856.

Thank you. I have written this down!

Are you able to find Edmund’s first marriage please? ie one before his 1839 marriage to Mary Ann where he was listed as status: widower?


Online amondg

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 24 November 20 00:43 GMT (UK) »
Not yet, 1861 he says born Hitchin Herts, all others born Somerset, maybe Jane gave the answers.
I'll look tomorrow need to sleep.

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 03:57 GMT (UK) »
Edmund Pearse seems to have had trouble with the law. If this is the same man he seems a bit young.
Herts Assizes
1819 guilty of larceny 14 days and whipped
1820 guilty of larceny 3 months
18 October 1821 guilty of larceny 7 years transportation. Repeat offender.
Arrived Van Dieman's Land Tasmania 22 March 1822.Name spelled Pearce on this record.
---
Old Bailey London 16 September 1839 charged with a misdemeanor he was found not guilty.
--------
So if he is your man he could have married in Australia, if the 7 years starts when he is sentenced then he could be back in England by 1828/1829 time frame OR when he got back.
Till other records are online it's the only thing I come up with as to why he is a widower in 1839.

You need someone with more expertise on Australian records to sort this out. Perhaps a new post focusing on Edmund Pearse/Pearce born circa 1808-1810 arriving Van Dieman's Land 22 March 1822. An age is definitely needed.

I have not found deaths for Mary (Hockerday)Pearse although she may have died in childbirth with Edmund 1840 or within the year.
OR Susanah/Susan (Snape/Allard) Pearse married in 1842 he is with Jane by 1846.
------
First child registered to Edmund Pearse and Jane Starr is Thomas Pearse Starr 1846 Bermondsey
he must have died as there is a second Thomas Pearse Starr registered 1849 at St Pancras.
 
Possible baptism Edmund Pearse son of William and Elizabeth 9 July 1809 St Mary Hitch Herts.

You have a time line, born Hitchin Herts ref 1861 census, poss. transportation to Australia 1822 court records, first known child registered Greenwich Kent 1840, second child 1846 Bermondsey, all others at St Pancras till the youngest George Pearse 1860 registered Marylebone mothers maiden name Weathers.
 

Offline nicdigby

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 11:17 GMT (UK) »
Edmund Pearse seems to have had trouble with the law. If this is the same man he seems a bit young.
Herts Assizes
1819 guilty of larceny 14 days and whipped
1820 guilty of larceny 3 months
18 October 1821 guilty of larceny 7 years transportation. Repeat offender.
Arrived Van Dieman's Land Tasmania 22 March 1822.Name spelled Pearce on this record.
---
Old Bailey London 16 September 1839 charged with a misdemeanor he was found not guilty.
--------
So if he is your man he could have married in Australia, if the 7 years starts when he is sentenced then he could be back in England by 1828/1829 time frame OR when he got back.
Till other records are online it's the only thing I come up with as to why he is a widower in 1839.

You need someone with more expertise on Australian records to sort this out. Perhaps a new post focusing on Edmund Pearse/Pearce born circa 1808-1810 arriving Van Dieman's Land 22 March 1822. An age is definitely needed.

I have not found deaths for Mary (Hockerday)Pearse although she may have died in childbirth with Edmund 1840 or within the year.
OR Susanah/Susan (Snape/Allard) Pearse married in 1842 he is with Jane by 1846.
------
First child registered to Edmund Pearse and Jane Starr is Thomas Pearse Starr 1846 Bermondsey
he must have died as there is a second Thomas Pearse Starr registered 1849 at St Pancras.
 
Possible baptism Edmund Pearse son of William and Elizabeth 9 July 1809 St Mary Hitch Herts.

You have a time line, born Hitchin Herts ref 1861 census, poss. transportation to Australia 1822 court records, first known child registered Greenwich Kent 1840, second child 1846 Bermondsey, all others at St Pancras till the youngest George Pearse 1860 registered Marylebone mothers maiden name Weathers.

Thank you so much for this, you’ve been really helpful and I’m so grateful. Will do a post in the Australian section to see where we go from here!

Offline nicdigby

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 19:42 GMT (UK) »
More info which I think I have discovered today.

I have ruled out the following men called Edmund Pearse:

1) The one born 1809, Hitchin: his parents were William and Eliz and I know (from his 1839 and 1842 and 1859 marriage records) that his father was definitely Thomas. Also this Edmund died 1835 age 26 years.
2) The one born 1816 in Easton, Wilts and baptised and married there; his 1839 marriage comes at the same time as MY Edmund's marriage in another place and to another woman
3) The one living in Tavistock Square London who was a surgeon, living with wife Isabella and son Reginald = wrong wife and child names and no record of anyone in my family being medical.This is the one who everyone on Ancestry has copied each other to give a death year of 1873 aged 57.

What I have found:

*A baptism record, 20 Mar 1801, Hitchin, Herts (so the correct location of birth as per later census records) (FamilySearch). Father: Thomas (correct) - labourer. Mother=Ann.


*I found the transportation record amongd found. He was found guilty of theft/larceny 18 Oct 1821 and - location of crimes = Hitchin. Sent to Van Diemen's Land (Ancestry) on the Prince of Orange 23 Mar 1822. For 7 years. So he was out there until at least 1829.

*I have found a possible marriage record: Edmund Pearce m Anne Martin 25 Nov 1833, Snake Banks, Longford, Tasmania. The name Jane Martin is on the wedding record and it's crossed out and Anne is written in instead and she signed with a X

I'm working on the theory that she died and he managed to return to England. Can anyone find his immigration back to England pls?

He then married in 1839, 842 and 1859.

And then, having discounted other deaths, I have found one that almost matches the year of baptism as 1801:

"Edmund Pearce, age 72, died of chronic bronchitis, Jan 20 1872, Marylebone workhouse"

I'm not sure that the death record is correct as he would have been 70 if he was born Mar 1801, not 72. Can anyone find another death record (that isn't the 1873 one of the Tavistock Square surgeon whose probate was given to his son Reginald).

Many thanks

Offline Ili1133

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Re: William George PEARSE How do I prove it's the correct marriage and baptism?
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 21:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

The 1871 census has Edmund Pearce age 71, publican, b Hitchin, residing in St Marylebone Workhouse. He was baptised in March 1801, but could well have been born some months earlier.