Author Topic: Richard Alfred Lee (Alf) born 1862  (Read 136 times)

Offline Geordie Mag

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Richard Alfred Lee (Alf) born 1862
« on: Monday 23 November 20 16:17 GMT (UK) »
My g. grandfather, R Alfred Lee, bunked off to the US at the end of 1899 to avoid a bankruptcy hearing. (He had been drinking rather than selling the contents of the cellar at his pub in County Durham.) He sailed from Liverpool on the Majestic and arrived on Ellis Island in November 1899. (He left his wife and children behind)
However, he was back in County Durham, working as a stockman, by the time of the 1911 census. I have been trying to find out
a) where he went in the USA.
b) when he sailed back to England. I can find lots of information about passenger lists to the USA but not for the return trip.
Alf was born in Ingleton County Durham in 1862, but on the Majestic passenger list says he is from Darlington, County Durham.
Northumberland: Little, Hogg, Tyers, Reid
Durham: Todd, Lee,
Cumbria: Ross, Ivison, Tyers
Yorkshire North Riding: Pybus, Alderson, Rutherford, Mudd, Wilson
Sussex: Selmes, Ashdown, Freelove, Mitchell

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Richard Alfred Lee (Alf) born 1862
« Reply #1 on: Monday 23 November 20 17:52 GMT (UK) »
It might have helped if he had arrived with a destination listed on the manifest :). The man above him is headed to Livingston NY, and at first I thought the entry for Alfred was "Do" for "ditto". but it is "No" same as in the column that asked if people had been in the US before.

edited to add:
it does say in another column that he was headed to New York.

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Richard Alfred Lee (Alf) born 1862
« Reply #2 on: Monday 23 November 20 18:09 GMT (UK) »
he's not the Richard Lee, born 1862 in England, who is in the Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, workhouse in 1902. That man was back in the workhouse in 1914. Same height, and a few pounds heavier.

edit: and in 1910, when he says he was born in Wales.


Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Richard Alfred Lee (Alf) born 1862
« Reply #3 on: Monday 23 November 20 18:37 GMT (UK) »
I'm not finding him. His 1911 census has a son Alfred George age 4, and the BMD looks like he was born 2nd qtr 1906. So that narrows down the date of Richard Alfred's return. But I don't see him anywhere.

Offline Geordie Mag

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Re: Richard Alfred Lee (Alf) born 1862
« Reply #4 on: Monday 23 November 20 19:59 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for your prompt replies. I should have thought about  George's birth narrowing down the time frame. (I did know Uncle George slightly - he was never called Alfred) and I am afraid I completely missed seeing New York as a destination.
I can't understand why he would put New York, he was a proper country lad. The family were really millers, but the business had failed not long before. The big steam mills opening up at the ports to mill Canadian wheat as it came in finished off many of the country mills (the Lees had a windmill in Ingleton). However, he had been in court for a preliminary hearing on October 19th 1899 and was on Ellis Island on November 16th 1899 so it can't have been a carefully considered trip. Perhaps he just said "New York" because that was the first name that came into his head, or perhaps he just fancied having a look at it. It would be very different to Ingleton, and Killerby where he had the pub, because they were both one street villages.
Anyway, thank you again. Mag
Northumberland: Little, Hogg, Tyers, Reid
Durham: Todd, Lee,
Cumbria: Ross, Ivison, Tyers
Yorkshire North Riding: Pybus, Alderson, Rutherford, Mudd, Wilson
Sussex: Selmes, Ashdown, Freelove, Mitchell

Offline Geordie Mag

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Re: Richard Alfred Lee (Alf) born 1862
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 25 November 20 22:06 GMT (UK) »
I thought I had made a breakthrough, but sadly the lead fizzled out.
I remembered that Alf's uncle, Matthew Lee,  who originally had worked with Alf's father as a miller, had disappeared from English records after the 1851 census. Looking through the passenger lists I discovered that Matthew  and his new wife Jesse (nee Wightman)had arrived in New York on April 29th 1852 on the Lady Franklin. Both of them were listed as millers born in 1823.
I thought this might explain Alf's actions - he had gone out to join his uncle. However I can't find Matthew and Jesse in US records, so another theory hits the dust!
Northumberland: Little, Hogg, Tyers, Reid
Durham: Todd, Lee,
Cumbria: Ross, Ivison, Tyers
Yorkshire North Riding: Pybus, Alderson, Rutherford, Mudd, Wilson
Sussex: Selmes, Ashdown, Freelove, Mitchell