Re: Help with this one please

[pigletlovesfamily]

Yes, you're correct, I'd been back in 1901 at the 'hotel' 

This is odd to me as I haven't seen an English DC where someone other than a relative was the informant, however, I've seen countless Scottish ones & usually, if the informant isn't a family member, details of some sort are recorded e.g. neighbour/friend/occupant/inmate etc. & often their address so it's odd there's no 'qualification' info. on EPA?

It would be good to find out just what the address at Richmond Street was, except there's no number on the burial record, however, it's worth finding out if there was a pub in the street if nothing else?

Have you found both on ERs?

This is by my reckoning...

You have Charles on 2 occasions as a 'servant' type occ...

1901 - Footman (hotel)
1908 - Valet (on death cert)
1908 - Licenced Victualler (on burial)

Could Charles have been a Valet to Edward as well as being a Licensed Victualler 

Annie

I looked at other dcs,  but if it was not a family member then the relationship to the deceased was not given, although the address was. I have quite a few who died in hospital. One cert, for my gt grandmother, was verified by a coroner of no address as  a post mortem was carried out after misadventure during an operation.
Both Richmond St and Brook st were mid terrace houses. In those days people did sell alcohol from their home, but I did not realise this late as prior to this I found them in the 1850s

As a servant.
 In 1901  he was living at Armathwaite Hall where he was employed as a footman to look after the Hartley family. 14 staff were employed here.
It is now a listed building, courtesy of English Heritage
Never an hotel when he worked there.
1908 a valet...my husband roared with laughter when mentioned this. A valet in Burton??? He would have lived in if so, so I wonder if the informant had no idea.  A cooper would not have had a valet if he was living in the family terrace house. He would be living in something far grander.
Now to search for a place where he could have been a Victualler.
Lorna

[Rosinish]

Is it possible EPA was related in some way as he was 'present at death'?

I've seen DCs with 'Procurator Fiscal' as the informant but it's self explanatory without an address.

Is it possible he hadn't seen Charles since his 'Footman' days at Armathwaite Hall where he possibly then became a 'Valet' there prior to becoming a 'Licenced Victualler' which Edward was unaware of?

It's a hard one to work out to be honest with the odd combination.

Annie

[Rosinish]

"the informant of his death was an unknown person who was living at the family home"...

But it reads as though Charles lived at Richmond Street & Edward lived at 8 Brook Street?

Do you know which family member was living at Richmond Street in 1911?

Annie

[pigletlovesfamily]

"the informant of his death was an unknown person who was living at the family home"...

But it reads as though Charles lived at Richmond Street & Edward lived at 8 Brook Street?

Do you know which family member was living at Richmond Street in 1911?

Annie

Is it possible EPA was related in some way as he was 'present at death'?

I've seen DCs with 'Procurator Fiscal' as the informant but it's self explanatory without an address.

Is it possible he hadn't seen Charles since his 'Footman' days at Armathwaite Hall where he possibly then became a 'Valet' there prior to becoming a 'Licenced Victualler' which Edward was unaware of?

It's a hard one to work out to be honest with the odd combination.

Annie

Related? EPA was born in Stepney, London, my man in Derbyshire, and his ancestors from St Albans, so very unlikely. I wonder if Mrs Herodius maybe asked EPA to pop along for her to register the death. Just seen that in 1901 she was living in Brook Street with another lodger. As her husband had died in 1894 she must have needed another income, although she was 45 and may have worked elsewhere. Being a landlady is far easier. Two of her sons married after 1901, leaving just Charles to help, so no wonder she moved north, to Yorkshire, by 1911 to live with one of her sons.
 If I could find the missing wives that might help. I did wonder if the first one went to New York, with their children. This is turning into rather a long saga, isn't it?

Family members were at Brook Street, but no idea who was at the other address. Not brother Alfred as his children were born in Hartshorne and the other brother was also married then. The problem with this family is that they seemed to move house far too frequently.

[Rosinish]

I haven't looked at any census' i.e. no idea when Herodias was born but this looks a possible...

Deaths Dec 1924   
Howard Herodias D 76 Wharfedale 9a 185

Annie

Add...I'm now confused with who's deaths you can't find & I'm now assuming you already have the above from the details on the burial records?

Can you please give their names & approx. yob?

[pigletlovesfamily]

I haven't looked at any census' i.e. no idea when Herodias was born but this looks a possible...

Deaths Dec 1924   
Howard Herodias D 76 Wharfedale 9a 185

Annie

Add...I'm now confused with who's deaths you can't find & I'm now assuming you already have the above from the details on the burial records?

Can you please give their names & approx. yob?

Yes that is right re Herodius and her death. I was looking for the deaths of the two wives of  Edward, in the hopes that I would get more information about where they were all living.  He was married in the 1871 census, then I found another marr in Burton, but in  1911 when he was at Brook Street, the Howard family home, he said he was widowed. The Howards lived here from the 1891 census onwards. Charles' father and  brother both died here, in 1894 and in 1897. In 1901 another brother was a milkman and living in Wyggeston St, Burton. I did find a biggish pub in this area, abut did not feel convinced. Herodius was here in 1901, and  Edward in 1908.  Where though was Edward in 1881, 1891 and 1901?

[Rosinish]

In order to have a look at the Edward situation can you please do a summary of him to include all you know to save scrolling to find everything?

Annie

[pigletlovesfamily]

In order to have a look at the Edward situation can you please do a summary of him to include all you know to save scrolling to find everything?

Annie

I did not save anything re Edward as I thought he would be easy. Obviously not! I shall do it tomorrow now as we are about to go to bed.
Thanks a lot for sticking with me on this trip.

[heywood]

Not sure if I am following this correctly but perhaps Mr Ashcroft was lodging with Herodias or living with her.

Amelia died in NY where she and the children had emigrated to in 1880.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WY6-DTS