Author Topic: Finding a Durham ancestor using the Bishops' Transcripts.  (Read 1013 times)

Offline JenB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,292
    • View Profile
Re: Finding a Durham ancestor using the Bishops' Transcripts.
« Reply #27 on: Friday 27 November 20 17:42 GMT (UK) »
Ooooh nice find. You looked more diligently than I did - I looked yesterday and didn't see it  ::)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Finding a Durham ancestor using the Bishops' Transcripts.
« Reply #28 on: Friday 27 November 20 19:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi folks.

Boo and JenB are absolutely right, of course. I should go back and re-read a favourite book, "Childhood and Death in Victorian England" by Sarah Seaton. It's well researched and has some harrowing information in it. I do like the possibility that Margaret took Elizabeth under her wing, and it's also quite possible that Elizabeth simply refused to leave England. I've checked out the immigration records for Australia and she didn't seem to have come out here at all, so it looks like it was a clean cut. The possibilities are endless, and as you've both said, we will never know for sure.

The links you have all found are excellent and I have already checked them out. I will buy Elizabeth's death certificate from the GRO and will follow up on the Bainbridge link. I'll also check out Margaret's history. She was one year older than Isabella, so it's possible they were close. Anything I find I'll post in this link.

Thank you all again for the effort you've put into finding out information. I really appreciate it.
Peter

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Finding a Durham ancestor using the Bishops' Transcripts.
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 29 November 20 20:39 GMT (UK) »
Update:

Sarah Annie Bainbridge birth details as follows:

Superintendent Registrarís District:   Darlington Union.

Registrarís Sub-District:      Darlington.

1876 BIRTHS in the District of Darlington in the Counties of Durham and York.

No. 439

When Born: Twenty fifth September 1876 Upper Victoria Street Darlington.

Name: Sarah Annie.

Sex: Girl.

Name and Surname of Father: James Bainbridge.

Name and Maiden Surname of Mother: Lizzie Bainbridge formerly Dial.

Rank or Profession of Father: Joiner.

Signature, Description, and Residence of Informant: Lizzie Bainbridge mother. Upper Victoria Street Darlington.

When Registered: Second November 1876.

Signature of Registrar: William Sewell. Registrar.

Baptismal Name if added after Registration of Birth: Blank.

I have ordered James and Lizzie's marriage certificate from the GRO and will camp at my letterbox until it arrives (could take years with the lockdowns). When I receive it I will post details.

Thanks everyone for the links.

Peter


Offline Girl Guide

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,489
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Finding a Durham ancestor using the Bishops' Transcripts.
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 29 November 20 21:09 GMT (UK) »
Hopefully it won't take ages.  I ordered a marriage cert on 20th Nov. and it was despatched on 27th Nov. Should arrive in the next couple of days.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Finding a Durham ancestor using the Bishops' Transcripts.
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 06 January 21 10:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi folks.

It took five weeks, but the marriage certificate arrived today! Here are the transcribed details:

1874 Marriage solemnized at Saint Augustineís Chapel, Paradise Row in the district of Darlington in the County of Durham and York.

No.            52

When Married:      29th June 1874

Name and Surname:   James Bainbridge, aged 24. Bachelor (Joiner).
            Elizabeth Halliday Dial, aged 24. Spinster (no rank or profession).

Residence:      Lawrence Street, Darlington.

Fathersí Names:      Robert Bainbridge (Engine Driver).
            Robert Dial (Coal Miner).

Married in the Saint Augustineís Chapel according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Roman Catholics by Certificate by me Henry Coll (Clerk).

Witnesses:       Robert Bainbridge and Hannah Bainbridge.

Registrar:         John Toes.

This is surprising to me in a number of ways. Elizabeth's father is recorded as Robert Dial yet his name is not on her birth certificate and he married Isabella over a year after her birth. I imagine that this was perhaps a politeness in filling out the form.

Elizabeth's age is a year out (she would have been 25). Quite probably a recording error.

No rank or profession is recorded for Elizabeth. She was a domestic in the 1861 census, and I am unable to locate the 1871 census. It seems unusual to me for her not to have had employment.

The biggest surprise is that she married in a Catholic Church. This would have been quite radical for the Dial family as they had a long-standing connection with Protestant churches (mostly Methodist and, later, Presbyterian).

Tentative conclusions? How's this for a possibility: Elizabeth was born to Isabella Sherlock, an unmarried mother aged 18 years. The father was most probably not Robert Dial. Isabella and Robert married in 1850 and Elizabeth was living with them in 1851 aged 2. At some stage between 1851 and 1861 Elizabeth was sent to live with her aunt Margaret, who most probably couldn't have children (no GRO or Durham Online records).

In 1859/60 Robert and Isabella decide to emigrate to England with their only surviving child, Peter. Elizabeth does not go with them, possibly because she has completely bonded with Margaret, or she was not informed of their departure, or she was aware that she wasn't wanted, or she simply refused to go. My money is on a mixture of all four possibilities, with odds favouring her simply deciding she didn't want to go (thanks for the suggestion, Boo). Thereafter Elizabeth holds onto the Dial connection with her name, and goes on to marry but is "forgotten" for whatever reason(s) by her family in Australia.

I'm happy for any suggestions for alternative explanations from anyone. Many thanks again for your fantastic support!

To follow: birth and death details for Elizabeth and James's son's birth and death (awaiting the GRO).

Peter 

Offline JenB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,292
    • View Profile
Re: Finding a Durham ancestor using the Bishops' Transcripts.
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 06 January 21 10:24 GMT (UK) »
Quote
This is surprising to me in a number of ways. Elizabeth's father is recorded as Robert Dial yet his name is not on her birth certificate and he married Isabella over a year after her birth. I imagine that this was perhaps a politeness in filling out the form.

I'm not surprised at all that Robert is named as her father. He married her mother, albeit a year after she was born, and probably in her eyes he was her father. Maybe her mother had told her that he actually was her father.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Finding a Durham ancestor using the Bishops' Transcripts.
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 06 January 21 10:26 GMT (UK) »
Thanks JenB. Excellent point.