Author Topic: Patrick O'Donnell m Mary Ryan  (Read 344 times)

Offline Leanne Pethick

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • In search of Annie Mabel May's parents
    • View Profile
Re: Patrick O'Donnell m Mary Ryan
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 11:53 GMT (UK) »
Yes, that actually occured to me a few times, particularly as I have never found a record of a marriage or a death for Mary Dwyer here in Victoria.  She may have moved interstate and I confess I find other state's bdm confusing.  Have mastered Vic and WA only.  If it is the same Mary Dwyer as was Catherine's sponsor, it would be unlikely for her to settle far from the O'Donnells unless she had closer family in Australia somewhere.

I spent some time searching for her (Mary Dwyer) on https://trove.nla.gov.au/ as well and came up empty.  However not confident of my searching skills.

Then I thought perhaps they just decided to give her Mary's maiden name of Ryan, however surely they would have done this before she came out to Australia?  IE she would have been Mary Ryan on the ship... or perhaps not, ... perhaps it was only after she came to Australia.  She was certainly Mary's age...
 :-\

I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.

Offline Leanne Pethick

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • In search of Annie Mabel May's parents
    • View Profile
Re: Patrick O'Donnell m Mary Ryan
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 12:03 GMT (UK) »

Mount Alexander Mail 23 Jul 1881 p2
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/198696008?
Neglected Children. Michael William O'DONNELL (5 1/4 years), Joseph O'DONNELL(II years), and Margaret O'Donnell (7 years), all neglected children...........

What a find!!!
Thank you SO much Wivenhoe *star*
This is definitely our O'Donnell children, particularly with elder sister Bridget.  Their father Patrick had died only 10 days or so before - on 12th July.
Mary went on to live another 12 years. I wonder if / when they went back to her?  I know that Margaret at least was very close with both Mary Kathleen and Bridget throughout their lives.

My aunty Joan didn't even know her mother had an uncle Michael (until I told her) even though he and his family lived within 10kms of them in Perth.

I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,748
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Patrick O'Donnell m Mary Ryan
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 12:35 GMT (UK) »

You can see the file -

At this site -
http://access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/component/daPublicBaseContainer?component=daSimpleSearch&componentLabel=Simple%20Search&breadcrumbPath=Home/Access%20the%20Collection/Simple%20Search

At top left hand...Searching......
drop down menu.....select....Search within a Series
For ........VPRS......write .....4527.......       
For words.....write....ODONNELL......

Finds........ODonnell, Joseph [Reg. no. 12659]
                ODonnell, Michael William [Reg. no. 12660]
Link to file is below the name........
Then......download PDF       


Offline Leanne Pethick

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • In search of Annie Mabel May's parents
    • View Profile
Re: Patrick O'Donnell m Mary Ryan
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 02 December 20 12:00 GMT (UK) »
My thanks to you yet again Wivenhoe!

Lovely to know that young Joseph was discharged to his sister Bridget (who wasn't a 'Mrs' anything at the time ;-)  Also that the 3 children were together most of the time.  Have let the cousins I am in contact with in Perth who are descendants of William and Margaret know that I have these docs and will upload to Ancestry for them.  Joseph died at 27yo and never married.
I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.

Offline Leanne Pethick

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • In search of Annie Mabel May's parents
    • View Profile
Re: Patrick O'Donnell m Mary Ryan
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 02 December 20 13:14 GMT (UK) »
Well after a very long day of hunting, I think I have found Mary's baptism.
The only thing is that she was baptised in 1848!  That is, if her parents really were Catherine Hogan and John Ryan.
This would have made her only 12yo when she married Patrick!  If it is our great grandmother, we have found her some siblings as well :) :)

John Ryan and Catherine Hogan married 2/2/1833, Cashel and Emly, Tipperary. (Present:) Patrick RYAN and Honora Walsh.
Children:
1. Edmund: baptised 27/7/1834, Cashel and Emly, County Tipperary. Sponsors: Edmund TRIGGS & Mary RYAN.
2. Patrick: baptised 27/3/1836, Cashel and Emly, County Tipperary. Sponsors:  James RYAN and Catherine MAHONEY
3. Thomas: baptised 23/2/1839, Cashel and Emly, County Tipperary. Sponsors:  James and Eliza KELLY
4. Margaret: baptised 2/5/1842, Cashel and Emly, County Tipperary. Sponsors: Matthew Healy and Mary CRONIN
5. Daniel: baptised 4/8/1844, Cashel and Emly, County Tipperary. Sponsors: John CRANLEY and Mary EDDGE
6. MARY: baptised 26/3/1848, Cashel and Emly, County Tipperary. Sponsors: Patt RYAN and Margaret Magrath.

Generally I have found that in Ireland, RC children were baptised relatively soon after their birth.
There is a bit of a space between Daniel and Mary... but not huge, particularly given Mary was child #6.
=> Should I keep her birth as c1841 - which all the docs in Australia would indicate, and which makes her about 19yo when she married ???

Such an incredibly satisfying feeling finding the family after 13 straight hours of hunting on FindMyPast, Ancestry, RootsIRE, FamilySearch etc.  Definitely not easy in Ireland! ;)

PS.  The fact that there was no Mary O'Donnell travelling with Patrick and the children, but a Mary Dwyer 22yo, together with the fact that Mary Ryan with parents John Ryan and Mary Hogan married only 12 years after she was baptised, has me feeling very unsure. Something fishy somewhere? 
Or not our Patrick O'Donnell on the Donald Mackay?
Hmmm  :-\
I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,748
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Patrick O'Donnell m Mary Ryan
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 03 December 20 05:57 GMT (UK) »
What do you know about John Thomas O'DONNELL's use of the name Walter BARTLETT?

From his death certificate.....where did he die...where is he buried......years in the colony....name of the informant...birthplace....occupation.....marriage/s...children?

4773/1933  BARTLETT Walter  parents Mary RYAN /  ODONNELL Patrick
age  71   @ Carlton

4773/1933  OCONNELL John Thomas  parents Mary RYAN /  ODONNELL Patrick
age  71   @ Carlton

Offline Leanne Pethick

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • In search of Annie Mabel May's parents
    • View Profile
Re: Patrick O'Donnell m Mary Ryan
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 03 December 20 06:34 GMT (UK) »
Bit of a sad story about John Thomas...  I bought his death certificate a while back now, when I was still working on identifying our relatives up to Patrick and Mary.  I have attached it here.

It appears that John Thomas was homeless when he died.
His death certificate gives place of death as the Exhibition Gardens in Melbourne (the sleeping place of many homeless) and date of death is '3rd or 4th' of June 1933. It seems he often(?) stayed at a homeless shelter in Little Bourke St Melbourne (close to the Gardens) as this was given as his 'residence' and it must have been from them that the information on the death certificate was obtained as the informant was a police constable. 
Unless they spoke with his sister Bridget who still lived in Castlemaine with her family (there is a photo of Bridget's Mitchell family with my grandmother Molly Hewitt and John Thomas taken at Bridget's home in Castlemaine during one of Grandma's trips 'east' to visit her Mitchell cousins.  This was taken 'pre 1930' - so he was obviously still in contact with Bridget at that point)

Where the Walter Bartlett came from, or why, I have no idea!  Neither Dad or Joan knew about John Thomas until I started researching.  Dad was only 2yo when John Thomas died.

Our PFT is in ancestry with Dad as the home person: https://www.ancestry.com.au/family-tree/tree/69794572/family/familyview and all the photos, certificates and information I have has been uploaded to the relevant people.

His age was given as 71 (only a year out),
Years in the Colony: 64.  ( would have been 7-ish instead of 4-ish when he arrived)
Never married - very comfortable this is correct.  Never a wife mentioned or with him in photos.
Occupation: Carpenter - like his father Patrick.
I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.