John Sandford and Elizabeth Cairns

[VICTORIA]

Hi I am looking for birthplaces in Ireland for John Sanford and Elizabeth Cairns John Sandford was born 1811 I believe his father was William Sandford. Elizabeth Cairns was born 1821 In 1851 Both Living in Newcastle Upon Tyne England.
The couple married April 1848 Newcastle Upon Tyne England.
Any help appreciated. There is a possibility The father of Elizabeth was John Cairns.
Victoria

[heywood]

The marriage of 1848 is transcribed @ England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
This confirms Elizabeth’s father as John Cairns and John’s as William.

The marriage certificate would confirm this and give you their fathers’ occupations which might help you.

In 1851 2407/690/12 and 1861 3820/36/18, son James is born abt 1844 and in Scotland. Which one is his parent? That might be useful if you can trace a birth for him.

What religious faith were the family? There are Roman Catholic baptism records online but you would need a parish and/or townland to trace with confidence.

[VICTORIA]

The marriage of 1848 is transcribed @ England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
This confirms Elizabeth’s father as John Cairns and John’s as William.

The marriage certificate would confirm this and give you their fathers’ occupations which might help you.

In 1851 2407/690/12 and 1861 3820/36/18, son James is born abt 1844 and in Scotland. Which one is his parent? That might be useful if you can trace a birth for him. James Sandford 1844 was born in Newcastle Upon Tyne England I have seen this mention of him being born Scotland but this is incorrect.

What religious faith were the family? There are Roman Catholic baptism records online but you would need a parish and/or townland to trace with confidence.

I believe their religion was Catholic.

[heywood]

There are baptisms at All Saints, Newcastle which I assume is CoE

This William must have died - there is a GRO record for his birth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NDKC-YRS

There is also a John 1857.

I think the best way forward is to look for James’ birth and to check the marriage certificate.

[VICTORIA]

The couple John Sandford and Elizabeth Cairns only had two sons James c 1844 and William c1854 I have these records I am trying to find birthplaces in Ireland for John Sandford c1811 and Elizabeth Cairns c1821-1860. Thank You for your help.
Victoria

[VICTORIA]

There are baptisms at All Saints, Newcastle which I assume is CoE

This William must have died - there is a GRO record for his birth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NDKC-YRS
Yes I think so too, found this,
Christening,1538-1975
William Sandford 12/03/1854 All Saints Newcastle Upon Tyne Northumberland
Parents John Sandford and Elizabeth


There is also a John 1857.

I think the best way forward is to look for James’ birth and to check the marriage certificate.

[heywood]

I thought you might be interested in the other births to the couple.
Family Search has transcriptions of the baptisms.
GRO has these births and deaths

1851 William Sandford mmn Cairns
death of William 1853 September quarter

1854 birth William Sandford mmn Cairns

1857 birth of John Sandford mmn Cairns
Death 1857 John Sandford

If the children were baptised Catholic, you would have Godparents listed who could be family members which would have helped your searching.

Having said that, they were baptised in the Church of England and I can’t see other Sandfords around.

The birth of the child James who was born before the marriage could have useful details. If this was Scotland, as indicated, there may be family in that area.

Do you have the marriage certificate for John and Elizabeth.

I refer to these details above because sometimes those details can help tracing family in other places.

[VICTORIA]

Thank you so much. I must be stupid  Did not see that James was born BEFORE the marriage I do not have details of marriage as it was sent to me via public family trees. I will see if I can find him in Scotland or Newcastle possibly living with relatives.
Victoria

[VICTORIA]

Found this,
1851 Census All Saints Newcastle Upon Tyne Northumberland England
St Mary Street .
James Sandford Age 7 Born 1844 Scotland HO107 Piece/Folio 2407/690
Household.
John Sandford Head age 35 born Ireland
Elizabeth Sandford age 31 bon Ireland
James Sandford age 7 born Scotland
Isabella Smith Lodger 25 born Newcastle Upon Tyne
So it seems the parents lived in Scotland after leaving Ireland James was born they then went to Newcastle Upon Tyne Northumberland and married 1848
I always thought place of birth for James ( Scotland ) was a mistake.