Author Topic: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??  (Read 1246 times)

Offline Trees

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,100
  • Can't see the wood for the !!!
    • View Profile
JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« on: Sunday 29 November 20 12:25 GMT (UK) »
Oh dear the Welsh part of the tree is not easy :(

William Davies married Elizabeth Jones 16 May 1855 Michaelstone super Avon, Glamorgan
That is certain but after that!!! Both William and Elizabeth are problems but I am trying to sort Elizabeth out first.
Known facts:
Her gather on the marriage certificate was Evan Jones a labourer.
1 from the censuses after their marriage her birth place and age is given as follows
61  32 fromLlanfyangleabercowyn,           next to St Clares
71 42 from Caermarthenshire Langynog        next to St Clares
81 50 fro St Clares,

I have a hand written "Tree" compiled from a conversation a Canadian "cousin" had with his grand mother in the 1980s giving Elizabeth born in the parish of Langynog 22 Jul 1829

F M P has an entry in the Ebenezer Particular Baptist Chapel Llangynock for an Elizabeth born 22 Jul 1829 parents Evan and Jane JOHN

I have not found Elizabeth in 1841 or 1851 as either Jones or John.

Is it possible that is the one at Ebenezer? Can anyone helpto find Elizabeth in 1841 or 1851 Please.

Next  also at Ebenezer are John born 20 day of December  1831 and Rachel registered 15 Mar 1834 to the same parents and in 1841 Piece: 1382 Book: 20 Folio: 6 Page Number: 3 Llangunnock there is an Evan John with with John age 10 and Rachel age 7 but his wife appearsto be Harriet ! I think the same family are on the 1851 census Piece: 2472 Folio: 610
Page Number: 17
I can not find a burial for Jane or a marriage for Evan and Harriet, is it possible Jane changed her name to Harriet?

I would be grateful for any ideas on these problems , thank you
Trees

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

For details of my research interests please see
mcmullin.me.uk
Also read the children a story from Story Time at the same web site.

Offline Milliepede

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,199
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« Reply #1 on: Monday 30 November 20 11:43 GMT (UK) »
Probably not important but can you confirm Elizabeth was a spinster when she married in 1855?

What was her residence at time of marriage.

Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline trish1120

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 28,216
  • Happy me
    • View Profile
Re: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« Reply #2 on: Monday 30 November 20 12:36 GMT (UK) »
Probably jsut going over what you have;

Marriage;
12 Nov 1828, St Cynog, Llangynog
Evan JOHN to Jane EVANS
Bachelor/Spinster

Bapts same church;
ELIZABETH 22 Jul 1827 to Evan/Jane (image must be feint and misread as 1827)
JOHN 20 Dec 1831 to Evan/Jene
RACHEL 15 Mar 1834 to Evan/Jane

Above on FreeREG

I cant see a burial or bapt for Jane but there is a Benjamin Evans Bapt 30 Mar 1816 St Ebenezer to THOMAS/ANN

If you look at the 1851 Census for Evan John; Anne and Benjamin Evans are living a few doors away from him.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 28,216
  • Happy me
    • View Profile
Re: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« Reply #3 on: Monday 30 November 20 12:58 GMT (UK) »
3 Margaret Johns reg in the right time frame   
 1839  S Quarter in THE CARMARTHEN UNION  Volume 26  Page 487 mmn EVANS***
1840  J Quarter in THE CARMARTHEN UNION  Volume 26  Page 520 mmn REES
1840  J Quarter in THE CARMARTHEN UNION  Volume 26  Page 518 mmn JOHN

+ 1 Mary John
JOHN, MARY mmn EVANS*** 
GRO Reference: 1839  D Quarter in THE CARMARTHEN UNION  Volume 26  Page 458

The one with mmn Evans seem to fit Margaret age 1 and Mary age 6 mths in 1841 Census.

So either Jane and Harriet are the same person or he married 2 Evans, possibly sisters?
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline Trees

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,100
  • Can't see the wood for the !!!
    • View Profile
Re: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« Reply #4 on: Monday 30 November 20 15:13 GMT (UK) »
You have comfirmed what I have so far. Looking at the entry for Elizabeth in Ebenezer I think it is 1829 though at first glance it could be mistaken for 1827 however looking back in the register for entries in 1829( Elizabeth and her brother are both entered in 182) The 9s have a very small loop.
I am worried about Margaret and Mary from GRO Index the earliest birth for Margaret would be   March and the latest birth for Mary- December  did they have the same mother or was Mary premature and is this when Jane died? but if that was so why can't I find Janes's death or a marriage for Evan and Harriet? I am sure there is at least one more John/Evans couple.
Then there is the question of where Elizabeth was in 1841 and 1851? :-\
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

For details of my research interests please see
mcmullin.me.uk
Also read the children a story from Story Time at the same web site.

Offline osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,224
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« Reply #5 on: Monday 30 November 20 19:03 GMT (UK) »
On the 1828 marriage, Evan John is of Llandilo Abercowin and jane of llangynog. They both marked, witnesses Margret Morris (?) & Henry Lewis both signed.

On the baptism for Jane, abode is noted as Cwrtycelin.

Marriage 22 May 1838 in the parish church of Llangynog
Evan Jones full age widower labourer Cwrtycelin father John Jones labourer
Harriet Powell full age spinster servant Pentowin (?) father Evan Powell labourer
both marked, witnesses Benjamin Thomas & John T????? both signed.

1841 census Court Celyniog HO107/1382/20 folio 5 pg 3
Evan John 35 labourer
Harriet 30
John 10
Rachel 7
Margaret 1
Mary 6 months
Rachel 80

https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/fcd736a7-a970-49f1-9904-55ec3f84d9a3

Possible birth reg for Margaret Jones sept qtr 1839 Carmarthen vol 26 pg 485 mmn Powell
and Mary Jones march qtr 1841 Carmarthen vol 26 pg 526 mmn Powell

John/Johns/Jones are variants at this time in this area. In the same way, you'll have noticed that William is sometimes Davies or David.

On later census entries, Evan gives his place of birth as Merthyr, Carmarthenshire
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Merthyr
Likely non-conformist birth recorded at Llangynog Baptist church 6 Nov 1805 for Evan son of John John & Rachel, his wife at Tavarn Plwcka in the parish Merthyr

https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/1e42f34b-aa20-4eb5-b6ee-1e08d718dfde
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,224
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« Reply #6 on: Monday 30 November 20 19:13 GMT (UK) »
possible marriage in Llanfihangel Abercowin 7 June 1792 for John John, yeoman, & Rachel David. Both marked, witnesses Lewis Robert & Sarah Thomas both signed.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Trees

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,100
  • Can't see the wood for the !!!
    • View Profile
Re: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« Reply #7 on: Monday 30 November 20 20:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi Osprey glad to have your input again as you see I have had to start over the  Llanegwad family were a huge red herring I think I'm on safer ground now I had accepted John John and Rachel David as the new top pair of Elizabeth's tree
I have Evan, Thomas and Benjamin from them with Evan marrying Jane Evans and they had Elizabeth, John and Rachel before I got in a tangle with John and Harriet,
I had totally missed the 1838 marriage   this looks very good. SO grateful where did you find it?

added got it on FindMyPast thanks
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

For details of my research interests please see
mcmullin.me.uk
Also read the children a story from Story Time at the same web site.

Offline trish1120

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 28,216
  • Happy me
    • View Profile
Re: JONES= JOHN?? Jane=Harriet??
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 09:55 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for sorting those birth regs out osprey, I was way out!


Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)