Author Topic: George Gunn Sinclair  (Read 1556 times)

Offline edesearch

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George Gunn Sinclair
« on: Tuesday 01 December 20 07:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Can somebody possibly tell me whether the following person ever traveled to New Zealand or nearby prior to 1850?

GEORGE GUNN SINCLAIR
born: 23 JUL 1817 Wick, Caithness, Scotland
Died: 19 APR 1899 Halkirk, Caithness

I believe his parent's names were Alexander Sinclair and Helen Gunn.

Kind Regards
Edesearch

Offline ColC

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Re: George Gunn Sinclair
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 10:46 GMT (UK) »
I cannot find a record to suggest that George was in New Zealand but between census returns I guess it might be possible.

He appears to be the eldest child of about 6, he remained single, and appears on all the census returns 1841-1891 as a Tailor

The death you mention GEORGE SINCLAIR age 82 died 1899 Halkirk
I do not think this is correct according to the 1891 census he was a Greenwich Pensioner, maybe he was the one who went to NZ?

I think this is the correct GEORGE SINCLAIR age 82 died 1898 Wick, son of Aleander & Helen Gunn.

Colin


Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline edesearch

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Re: George Gunn Sinclair
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 11:00 GMT (UK) »
Cheers Colin, I must have got my wires crossed.

Offline ColC

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Re: George Gunn Sinclair
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 12:25 GMT (UK) »
I'm not so sure now, looking at the other George Sinclair who died Halkirk, a tree on Ancestry seems to think he was the son of Aleander & Helen they may be right.

1891  Church St. Halkirk
George Sinclair   73    Born Wick, Caithness,  Greenwich Pensioner
Isabella Sinclair   70   ditto
Isabella Sinclair   30   Draining, Moyray shire
Alexina Sinclair   30   ditto

GEORGE SINCLAIR married ISABELLA GREEN   01/12/1843   Wick

A tree on Ancestry notes that they had a son William born in England 1846.

Children born Drainie, Elgin, Morayshire

HELEN GUNN SINCLAIR 22/11/1847
MARGARET SINCLAIR 21/03/1850
DANIEL SINCLAIR 6/06/1852

Statutory Registration
ISABELLA & ALEXANDRINA 1858

Most likely others?


ALEXANDER SINCLAIR married HELLEN GUN   26/03/1802   Latheron

Children: Wick
JANET MCKAY SINCLAIR 23/03/1815
GEORGE SINCLAIR 30/07/1817
DANIEL SINCLAIR 0/04/1823

The main problem is there were two George's born Wick.

SINCLAIR   GEORGE   ALEXANDER SINCLAIR/HELEN GUNN   30/07/1817   Wick
SINCLAIR   GEORGE   ANDREW SINCLAIR/JEAN GROAT   18/07/1817   Wick

The tailor remained in Wick, the above George & Isabella were in England until 1847.

I eventually found them 1851 Draine.
George Sinclair   33 a Coast Guard.
Isabella Sinclair   30
Walter Sinclair   25 - this is an Ancestry error he was 5
Helen Sinclair   3
Margaret Sinclair 1

No 1861 but in 1871 they are back in Wick George is a farmer.

I'm guessing this is Walter.
Walter Green Sinclair
Birth   01/1846  Essex Maldon

In 1841 George age 25 is a Soldier at Wellington Barracks, Westminster.

No Military records as I can find but others on this site may be able to help.
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.


Offline Gary Allison

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Re: George Gunn Sinclair
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 11 July 21 13:33 BST (UK) »
Hi.

Looking for anything on the following & any help would be fantastic.

Regards,

Gary
Australia

Donald Gun
Donald Gun was baptized on month day 1663, at baptism place.
Donald married #Margaret Gun (born Sinclair) on month day 1688, at marriage place.
They had 3 children: Alexander Gun and 2 other children.
Documents of Donald Gun

Donald Gun in Scotland, Marriages, 1561-1910
Margt. Sinclar married Donald Gun on month day 1688, at marriage place.



#Alexander Gun, born Circa 1688 or Alistair
Alexander Gun was born circa 1688, at birth place, to #Donald Gun and #Margaret Gun (born Sinclair).
Alexander was baptized on month day 1689, at baptism place.
He had 2 siblings: Margaret Gun and one other sibling.
#Alexander married #Katherine Gun (born Cormack) on month day 1732, at age 44 at marriage place.
They had 3 children: William Gun and 2 other children.
Documents of Alexander Gun

Online Forfarian

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Re: George Gunn Sinclair
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 11 July 21 14:07 BST (UK) »
It looks as if you have got that information from some commercial web site, such as Ancestry or MyHeritage. Never trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original document - and even then be wary as errors can and do occur.

See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

There is a baptism of Alexander Gun or Sinclr, son of Dod Gun and Margt Sinclr, in Thurso on 24 August 1689.

The fact that his name is given as 'Gun or Sinclr' specifically implies that Alexander was illegitimate. The original document actually says, "Aug 24 89 .... begotten in supposed adultrie betwixt Dod Gun and Margt Sinclr ...."

There is a marriage of Donald Gun and Margt Sinclar in Thurso on 15 January 1688. So there must be some question whether the child baptised in 1689 was the child on the couple married 19 months earlier.

There is a baptism of Donld Gune to Allexr Gune in Thurso on 10 August 1663.

However it is not safe to assume that all these references are to the same Donald Gunn unless you have some other evidence to confirm it. There is another Donald Gune, son of Alexr Gune, baptised in Thurso in November 1660. Was he an older brother who died, or an entirely different Donald Gunn, and if so which one married Margaret Sinclair? Were there two couples who happened to have the same names?

Scotland's People has no further records of baptisms of children to Donald Gunn and Margaret Sinclair. There are baptisms of two children to Donald Gun, no mother named, in Thurso in 1693 and 1698, but no Margaret until 1717, 29 years after the marriage in 1688, so even if Margaret Sinclair was married at say 18 she would be pretty much too old to bear a child in 1717.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Gary Allison

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Re: George Gunn Sinclair
« Reply #6 on: Monday 12 July 21 08:07 BST (UK) »
Hi.

Thanks very much for that . It only confuses more. Found this.

Cheers,

Gary.

 Biography
Alastair Gun(n) was born about 1708, the son of Donald "Mor" (big) Gunn (died 1716). He suceeded his father as tackman (long term tenant) of Crosskirk (Port na' Cross) near Thurso, and Gillock, between Thurso and Wick. He was known as the "Scholar of Murza", which is near Gillock.
He married Katherine Cormac in 1732 in Watten, and they had three children, John of Hestigrew, Ingram, and Captain Alexander

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Re: George Gunn Sinclair
« Reply #7 on: Monday 12 July 21 09:35 BST (UK) »
Not surprised it's confusing!

Alastair is an anglicised spelling of the Gaelic version of Alexander, which might remove some of the confusion.

You need to look at the originals of these various baptisms on the Scotland's People web site, and see what additonal information they might contain - an occupation, or residence, or maybe even the names of witnesses. Margaret's baptism in 1717 might be especially helpful, because if she was the daughter of Donald 'Mor' Gunn who died in 1716, it will probably say that he was deceased.

The problem is that the further back you go, the more incomplete is the information available. In particular, many (most) people's baptisms are missing from the surviving records. So just because there is a possible candidate in the records doesn't automatically mean that (s)he is the right person.

You might be able to find estate records, for example rental records, that would shed some light. According to the Valuation Rolls the proprietor of Crosskirk in 1855 (the earliest available online) was James Sinclair. James Sinclair Esquire was still a significant landowner in 1875, but he does not appear in 1885, so must presumably have died. It looks as if he was James Sinclair of Forss, who died on 1 March 1876 at Forss House. He was a descendant of the Sinclair of Forss who would have made the tack of Crosskirk to the original Gunn there, whoever he was.

The National Records of Scotland https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/ has numerous references to Sinclair of Forss. There could also be uncatalogued material, for example sasines and deeds, that would provide additional information. For that, you'd probably need to get a professional searcher to look on your behalf unless you want to spend many days in the search room in Edinburgh.

It would also be worth investigating whether the Highland Archives https://www.highlifehighland.com/archives-service/ has any material relating to the estates of Sinclair of Forss.

Also consider contacting (or even joining) the Caithness Family History Society https://caithnessfhs.org.uk/

Hope this helps.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Gary Allison

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Re: George Gunn Sinclair
« Reply #8 on: Monday 12 July 21 09:52 BST (UK) »
Hi.

Thanks very much for that. I have had pretty bad encounters with Scotlandspeople so I wont be goin there again. Will try Caithness & Highland Archives. If I do find something I will let you know if that is OK.

Cheers,

Gary.