Where is Alma Matthews and how does she fit into our Matthews family tree?

[majm]

Reply #4 from Cando quotes.... thought the mother's name was Alma

Either the nun's recollection was vague, or Ivy lied. Simple.

I would suggest the infant was dropped off before the 1919 marriage of Ivy Lilian MATTHEWS to Alick IVORY.

The couple had 2 chn before the death in 1927 of Ivy.

You need to ignore the SHEPHERD.  It is not relevant.

Sue

Exactly.

Importantly,  Ivy Shepherd's birth is found at Vic BDM online index, confirms PRENTICE as her nee name  matching info on her Vic bdm death index.

JM.

[sparrett]

Yes, that's right JM.

The PRENTICE/MATTHEWS marriage took place in Cambridge England and the couple were immigrants or settlers arriving around 1890.

Sue

[wivenhoe]

".. the nun thought her mothers name was Alma matthews..."

What /who is the source of this information....the substance of verbal exchange that occurred 100 years ago?   Who was the nun talking to?

I do not think it is very useful information to work with......could be anything........too long ago.

[Peggle]

Still trying to follow   
As is Mandy, my known cousin, who was involved with the previous thread on James Ralph Matthews and Lillian (nee Tiffin) Matthews.
We are watching and trying to understand how things are panning out and both are not really super proficient with trying to help, sorry, so thanks for helping.

We wondered if there was more to Ivy Lily Ivory's story than the birth of her child
Dorothy Ellen Matthews b.31 Oct 1915
TAS BDM Reg No.2103 
Mother; Ivy Lily Matthews
Father; Not stated

Dorothy was known as Dorrie and was brought up within the James and Lillian family unit as one of their children. Violet Matthews spoke about her but there was never any confirmation about her being Ivy Lily's child.
I only recently found the birth record for her in the Hobart Library records which confirmed the relationship to Ivy Lily.

Peg
 

[majm]

".. the nun thought her mothers name was Alma matthews..."

What /who is the source of this information....the substance of verbal exchange that occurred 100 years ago?   Who was the nun talking to?

I do not think it is very useful information to work with......could be anything........too long ago.

Sorry to disagree with Wivenhoe  but ...

It seems to me that it is info that Amy provided to her family,  as per their comments/remarks online trees, and so it is oral history  that was provided initially to Amy when she was young .  So Amy  knew her date of birth,  and she knew her mum was  surnamed MATTHEWS .... and ... Cando has  researched, obtained and uploaded Amy's likely birth cert.   So the info is not newly invented info, nor is it 100 years old. The civil birth rego is 100 plus years ago.   

Two apparently unconnected families have, through DNA comparisons, recognised they may be related and Peggles has asked us regulars at RChat for help finding a possible paper trail to support the DNA connection. 

I support the paper trail from Ivy's NSW birth to Amy's Vic birth to Ivy's Vic marriage to become Mrs IVORY and her death in Vic aged just 33, in 1927. 

To me, the dots are joining up.  I don't understand DNA, but seeing that birth cert with Ivy' s details and Amy's dob .....



JM.
.

[Peggle]

Wivenhoe

The 2 Granddaughters of Amy Ellen Rose Gleed (nee Matthews) have given all the information they have. I can only share what I've been told, and I'll give you what I know.
Mandy and I have only recently connected with them via our DNA matches on Ancestry and DNA matches to other known Matthews family members.
Consequently, we are trying to figure out how they, their Grandmother Amy Ellen and her mother Alma Matthews are connected to us.

The wikitree reference was inserted by one of these Granddaughters.

So this is what one of them has told us.......

Quote:
' The Register of Infants without Mothers from the St.Joseph's Hospital,Broadmeadows,
list her birthname as Amy Ellen Matthews, born 17 Jan 1918 in Melbourne.
She was admitted to Broadmeadows on 25th Mar 1919.
She was discharged on 12 Jul 1922 with the view of adoption to Mr and Mrs Gleed of East Trentham.
Amy was then aged 4 years and 5 months.
In the Broadmeadows home she was known as Nellie Matthews.

From the record, she was initially discharged at the age of 3 years to foster parents in Monbulk, Vic on 14 Feb 1921, but was returned.
She was born in 1918, so her birth mother cared for her or someone close cared for her for a little over a year.

There is a number to quote on contact to the cfwb.st. joseph's Adoption Information Service,
 being ****

It appears Amy was never adopted.

The Sisters of St.Joseph Adoption Information Services said that was all the information they had.
We think her mother was Alma Matthews, this lady may have had another child at hospital.
The mention of other babies was hand written on the back of some correspondence by the Nun at the first request for information by Amy in 1985.
The Nun seemed to remember the lady returning to have another child.

Amy tried to pursue more information in 1996 but if any was received, then the Granddaughter has no knowledge of it.'

And also this:
Quote
'The question about Amy's age at marriage......
She was under age. She had to get special permission from the Priest at St.Johns Church, East Melbourne. I remember at that stage she wasn't sure how old she was.
The witnesses were William and Margaret Lyons."

Peg 

[Peggle]

JM Thank you!
You have explained it all very well 

Both of the newly found cousins are close matches.
They will most likely make comments when they figure out how RootsChat works but for the time being we are all watching in awe in the background and chattering amongst ourselves, our heads spinning, trying to fir the puzzle pieces together.....

Peg.

[sparrett]

This is one of the In Memoriam notices placed in the newspaper by Ivy IVORY noting the death of her father James Ralph MATTHEWS.
Her children are mentioned as Reg and Tyrell

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69839402

(I seem to think Tyrell as a name was mentioned in your previous thread)

I believe these children were born in Tas.
Here is a link to Reginald's WW2 service record.

https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/veteran?id=497050&c=WW2#R

Tyrell may have married

Tyrell Mavis IVORY
Year 1938
Victoria, Australia
Richd Arthur FALLON
Reg 16935

Sue

[sparrett]

We wondered if there was more to Ivy Lily Ivory's story than the birth of her child
Dorothy Ellen Matthews b.31 Oct 1915
TAS BDM Reg No.2103 
Mother; Ivy Lily Matthews
Father; Not stated

Dorothy was known as Dorrie and was brought up within the James and Lillian family unit as one of their children. Violet Matthews spoke about her but there was never any confirmation about her being Ivy Lily's child.
I only recently found the birth record for her in the Hobart Library records which confirmed the relationship to Ivy Lily.

Peg

Hi,
I am not familiar with Tas birth records of that time.
Is there a more specific location for this birth rather than just Tasmania?

Is there any other information included?

On the BC for Amy, the stated marriage date for Ivy and Mr ROME is 1915
(I very much doubt Mr Rome existed!)

Sue