Author Topic: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?  (Read 3463 times)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 12 December 20 00:56 GMT (UK) »
Thomas may well have died somewhere else, and been buried in Cobbity, because it was the closest C of E church.
Cobbity (south west of Sydney) is in the Camden area (originally called “Cow pastures”). This is where Elizabeth Macarthur’s famous Camden Park Estate and Belgenny Farm was. It was / is an area rich in convict history and early agricultural history. In the 1840s, land in Camden was opened up for sale and there was substantial growth.
Thomas may have been in the vicinity because there was plenty of employment.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline judb

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 12 December 20 02:20 GMT (UK) »
Just a snippet or two re the 'Hn.ble R Campbell" as mentioned in the Bound Indenture disposal document (Reply #11)

Robert Campbell had many adventures as you can see by following the link provided by Neale1961 (Reply #18) http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/campbell-robert-1876
In December 1825 Campbell was appointed a member of the first New South Wales Legislative Council, which allowed him to use the epithet "Honourable". 

He acquired property on the Limestone Plains (now part of Canberra) in the late 1820s-1830s and later named it Duntroon, but continued to live mostly in Sydney, visiting the property increasingly after his wife's death in 1833; Robert himself died at Duntroon on 15 April 1846, and was buried at St John's, Parramatta.
Some information from
http://www.crispinhull.com.au/book-on-canberra/chapter-2-european-settlement-and-the-naming-of-canberra/
By 1828 the total European population was 171 — only 8 of whom were women and 73 were convicts still under sentence. Most of the convicts probably led better lives off the sheep runs than they did in England. In the next five years, the population grew to more than 500. By 1836 it was 1700. In 1840 the convict population fell with the end of transportation. Small villages developed around Robert Campbell’s Duntroon and the Ginninderra properties. Robert’s son Charles came to Duntroon in 1835 to manage his father’s estate. Charles believed in giving labourers small amounts of land at low rent and encouraging married men to come to work on his estates. In 1845 St John’s church was completed. By this stage the nearby township of Queanbeyan (in present day NSW) had 500 people.
In the 1830s the first wool was exported out of the area. By 1834, Duntroon had 20,000 sheep. By 1838 Yarralumla had 25,000 sheep. The Canberra-Yass area still produces some of the finest wool in the world.


Seems to me that there would have been work around the area for a person with farming experience so I would think it less likely that Thomas would have gone on to Cobbity.  However people did travel long distances by foot or by horse.

I'm intrigued by the reference on the Queanbeyan Application list as  Walker Thomas, Alias
Cooper, Richard
but mentions of a Richard Cooper are just as elusive.

On Monday I'll give the ACT Heritage Library a call and see if there's any possible access if there's any employment papers for Duntroon.

Judith

Just as an aside - Duntroon is now the site of the Royal Military College and Duntroon House is still used the Officers' Mess.
Edit to add - The dairy for the property is one of the oldest European-built buildings in the ACT, it was constructed about 1832 -perhaps Thomas was there!!  ::)
https://www.nationaltrust.org.au/places/duntroon-dairy/















DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline caroline_forster

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 12 December 20 11:56 GMT (UK) »
Hello all,

Thanks Judith for confirming that Robert Campbell could use the epithet "Honourable" at that time. And thank you for the kind offer of trying to find out about Duntroon records.

I believe Thomas Walker alias Richard Cooper arrived on the Susan in 1833 so I have been treating him as an unrelated person.

"The Trove" has been very interesting to look at and I will use it further. I found reference to Thomas' 1836 Ticket of Leave in Murray Country and his certificate of Freedom issued in 1843.

A new piece of information I leaned was that he absconded from No. 44 Road Gang (reported in Government Gazette Notices September 1832), but I haven't found anything about him being "recaptured". So now I need to research Road Gangs and punishments for absconding! 

In this 1832 article it again refers to him being from Northampton, so it seems that his true origins (Northallerton, Yorkshire) were misheard / badly transcribed and from his arrival in 1829 "Northampton" is the place most likely to be linked to his name in any convict records.

In an earlier post JM mentioned the 1837 General Muster. Does anybody know where I could search / view that as I'm having no luck via my UK resources?

Unfortunately I'm unlikely to the chance to do much research after today, at least not for a week or so, but guaranteed I will be greedily reading anything you may post and will have Thomas Walker mulling over in my head!

Thanks again everyone,

Best Wishes

Caroline

Offline judb

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 13 December 20 00:59 GMT (UK) »
Sorry - just clarifying  ::) my reference to the dairy at Duntroon as I had left out a sentence.  Now edited to read:
Edit to add - The dairy for the property is one of the oldest European-built buildings in the ACT, it was constructed about 1832 -perhaps Thomas was there!!  ::)
https://www.nationaltrust.org.au/places/duntroon-dairy/

Judith

DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline majm

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #31 on: Monday 14 December 20 04:32 GMT (UK) »
Please don't overlook that Richard COOPER who was also known as Thomas WALKER.   Afterall, whenever any of us do find any reference to a Thomas Walker in the Queanbeyan district we need to remember there were at least two chaps in the 1830s, 1840s known by that name in that district... 

Queanbeyan - that was and is the County of Murray.

The road from Sydney down through Queanbeyan - that road went through Cobbitty far earlier than the sub-divisions of land in the 1840s...  Back before the Rum Rebellion of 1808 even ..... it was surveyed by various of  Sir Thomas MITCHELL's teams in the early 1830s :)  One of my ancestors was one of the surveyors in his office, and in the field too.    You will find many of the locality names are attributed to Thomas Mitchell.  He often set about trying to find Anglo spelling for the local Tribal names of various geographical features... 

National Library, Canberra  :)  Do not buy the NSW BDM Early Church Record.  Consider that there may well be better details available from the records held by the NLA, in Canberra.   :)

https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/74208 Records of the parish of Narellan, 1827-1927 / compiled by A.F. Pain   
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/3540079

It is very possible that the chap at Cobbitty is not NOT our OPs chap, but I do think we need to check and see if the record does have any info that will help clarify this quest. 

Any sightings from mid 1851 until closer to 1900 are going to be very difficult to sort, as the inflow of people once gold was discovered simply overwhelms any search for a former convict in NSW records unless there's known oral history, or confirmed family Bible entries, or written correspondence with signatures to check or identifying details in the correspondence... eg "I arrived in Sydney on ...th of ...... in the year 18.....  on the ship ............ captain  ............ and I married ...........  the daughter/son of .............., a merchant/ag lab living at .............   I was born ......... at .........   my father was .......... /  or another example 'I sold my land at ........ to ......... who arrived on the ship ........... in ..........."  or 'I am not Joe Blow who arrived on the ........... under a bond.  I am Joe Blow who arrived on the ........... on the ....th of ...... in 18xx with my wife, (her name) and children...... (name and ages)..' .

JM
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Offline Neale1961

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #32 on: Monday 14 December 20 06:02 GMT (UK) »
In case it is of interest I am attaching the 3 "Thomas Walker" references from the index of the 1841 census. If he is listed, I think your Thomas might be the one at Paramatta.
You would need to access the complete copy through the NSW archives.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline judb

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #33 on: Monday 14 December 20 06:24 GMT (UK) »
Very confusing -
this is the entry already quoted by JM on 8 December on the page of Queanbeyan applications (New South Wales, Convicts Records, Queanbeyan Applications, 1828-1857 , Volume Number: 4/5651) there are two entries for Thomas Walker
The first gives the name with no number or other notation except for "P" in the column labelled "Jany 1841; the name is bracketed with the alias.
"Walker, Thomas
alias Cooper, Richard"

The second has details which correspond with 'our' Thomas
Walker Thomas, arr per Ld Melville 1829, employed by R Campbell.  The letter "P" is in the Jany 1841" column.

There is another page of these "Queanbeyan Applications, 1828-1857"    
New South Wales, Convicts Records, Queanbeyan Applications, 1828-1857
Volume Number: 4/5651
   

And it has no mention of 'our' Thomas or are they the same man - not if the ship name is correct.
No of Ticket-38 1590
Walker Thomas, alias Cooper Richard, per ship Susan,
No other notations except - "free by servitude"

Judith

DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #34 on: Monday 14 December 20 06:46 GMT (UK) »
I don't know the answer, but a few thoughts ... ??
The NSW census was 2nd March, and maybe at that stage Thomas had not yet been moved on to Queanbeyan.
Or
Robert Campbell (snr) was one of the biggest land holders in the colony at the time - from memory he had farms at Windsor, Paramatta and Queanbean, as well as house and wharves in Sydney - so maybe Thomas was employed for him at one of these other places.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline majm

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Re: Thomas Walker, Convict freed 1843. What happened next?
« Reply #35 on: Monday 14 December 20 07:57 GMT (UK) »
Names on the 1841 NSW census are only the heads of households.  The others in household ... those names are  NOT listed.  Also only fragments of the 1841 are extant.  The rest was lost ... likely lost in a fire in 1880s in Government storage in Sydney.   

So extremely unlikely to find any person would was under a bond, still serving out their sentence as the person as head of a household in rural areas ....  North shore was rural until mid 1930s and opening of Harbour Bridge.  Parramatta was rural until WWI ... suburbs near Parramatta  rural until 1980s...  but Sydney 'itself ' and nearby suburbs were urbanized back in 1800s.


JM.
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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