Author Topic: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas  (Read 2914 times)

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 22 December 20 18:32 GMT (UK) »
And saw a diagram the other day of how, in a restaurant setting, covid was spread to socially distanced people via the ventilation system as there was more in the air than previously thought.  That doesn't bode well for opening windows does it - you will be letting the virus in.

Was the restaurant ventilation system re-circulating air?
Opening a window at home is letting different air in from outside (I won't say "fresh air" as it depends where the home is situated), it's not letting the virus in. You might get a chill from sitting near an open window but you won't catch a virus.
All windows on a bus were open. I spent 40 minutes huddled-up against the draught on a cold, windy December day. I had to balance risks of being cold, inhaling traffic fumes through my mask, and Covid. The bus journey was necessary, returning from a hospital visit. Total number of passengers was 6. My area was in Tier 4 then. Came out of Tier 4 on 11th December and will return to it on Boxing Day.
Jason Leitch, Scotland's medical guru warned ages ago that Christmas wouldn't be normal. Nicola Sturgeon told us a week ago to limit visits to 1 day at Christmas. She said she intended to meet her parents for a walk but wouldn't be having Christmas dinner with them.

A general assumption you can make is if you see an air conditioning unit in any enclosed space is that it is re-circulating 100% of the air within that space.

Where you see only grills in the ceiling these will be a mixture of supply air and extract air.  Most ducted air conditioning systems will be designed and set up to change the whole of the air in the occupied space up to 6 times per hour, by comparison a general Operating Theatre has 20 air changes per hour. 

Air conditioning systems are by design re-circulatory in the main.  Whilst some of you reading this may think that this is wrong, to heat and or cool a volume of air is expensive and simply exhausting outside all air extracted is energy inefficient.

Any airborne Covid will mostly pass through the vast majority of air conditioning systems, the filtration systems installed simply do not filter down to the size of the Covid virus.

Despite all the protective gear, apron, gloves, facemask, faceshield and all the hand sanitiser our Daughter who is a Nurse still caught Covid.

Have no doubt, Covid is also transmitted in the air.

Notice how far away you can smell cigarette smoke, well the particle size of tobacco smoke is not much larger than what a Covid virus is, so bear this in mind.

Offline Erato

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 22 December 20 18:51 GMT (UK) »
No sign yet of the new variant in Ecuador but stricter measures have just been imposed anyway:  30-day state of emergency; 15 days of total curfew 10 pm to 4 am; no gatherings of more than ten people; restaurants restricted to 30% capacity; bars, discos and night clubs closed; stores open only 8 am to 8 pm; no sales of alcohol; driving restricted to certain days depending on license plate number.  None of it really affects me since I don't have a car, don't drink, don't frequent night clubs and seldom eat in restaurants.

I bought a fat hen for Christmas dinner which I will share with three other people - not very festive but so it goes.
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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 22 December 20 19:00 GMT (UK) »
Similar on the Isle of Man, Erato.

Only residents allowed in. Used to be exceptions for "key workers", but that's scrapped.
Still 14 day self-isolation on return; no allowance for daily excercise.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 22 December 20 23:54 GMT (UK) »
And saw a diagram the other day of how, in a restaurant setting, covid was spread to socially distanced people via the ventilation system as there was more in the air than previously thought.  That doesn't bode well for opening windows does it - you will be letting the virus in.

Was the restaurant ventilation system re-circulating air?
Opening a window at home is letting different air in from outside (I won't say "fresh air" as it depends where the home is situated), it's not letting the virus in. You might get a chill from sitting near an open window but you won't catch a virus.
All windows on a bus were open. I spent 40 minutes huddled-up against the draught on a cold, windy December day. I had to balance risks of being cold, inhaling traffic fumes through my mask, and Covid. The bus journey was necessary, returning from a hospital visit. Total number of passengers was 6. My area was in Tier 4 then. Came out of Tier 4 on 11th December and will return to it on Boxing Day.
Jason Leitch, Scotland's medical guru warned ages ago that Christmas wouldn't be normal. Nicola Sturgeon told us a week ago to limit visits to 1 day at Christmas. She said she intended to meet her parents for a walk but wouldn't be having Christmas dinner with them.

A general assumption you can make is if you see an air conditioning unit in any enclosed space is that it is re-circulating 100% of the air within that space.

Where you see only grills in the ceiling these will be a mixture of supply air and extract air.  Most ducted air conditioning systems will be designed and set up to change the whole of the air in the occupied space up to 6 times per hour, by comparison a general Operating Theatre has 20 air changes per hour. 

Air conditioning systems are by design re-circulatory in the main.  Whilst some of you reading this may think that this is wrong, to heat and or cool a volume of air is expensive and simply exhausting outside all air extracted is energy inefficient.

Any airborne Covid will mostly pass through the vast majority of air conditioning systems, the filtration systems installed simply do not filter down to the size of the Covid virus.

Despite all the protective gear, apron, gloves, facemask, faceshield and all the hand sanitiser our Daughter who is a Nurse still caught Covid.

Have no doubt, Covid is also transmitted in the air.

Notice how far away you can smell cigarette smoke, well the particle size of tobacco smoke is not much larger than what a Covid virus is, so bear this in mind.

Says in Dental Surgeries they can remain infectious 2h up to 9 days ...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41368-020-0075-9

Covid-19 also affecting the Vascular System
https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/is-coronavirus-a-disease-of-the-blood-vessels

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(20)30342-X/fulltext

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/what-does-covid-do-to-your-blood

Mark

Offline tazzie

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 23 December 20 08:59 GMT (UK) »
So far I've worked through the year. I work in a very large secondary school and have been ok. We finished the term on Thursday and after no haircut since February booked an appointment. Public health asked all parents at school to order home testing kits and send off. Quiet weekend and did the whole Christmas shop on Monday. test came back negative.Did a present drop on doorsteps of parents and in laws.....all in their 80s.
 Today....I got pinged by the NHS app telling me to self isolate for 6 days!!
 So that's me with more time to be on here I suppose.

 Tazzie in lockdown till 28th :'(
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Offline Skoosh

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 23 December 20 09:51 GMT (UK) »
Sun photographer followed Nicola Sturgeon to the funeral of one of her civil servants and caught her speaking to two old women without wearing her mask, front page in the Sun despite her being socially distanced and in the open air. An apology from the First Minister despite no rules being broken.
 Meanwhile millions of pounds worth of perishable goods are piling up in Kent and Britain heads for disaster.

Skoosh.

Moderator Comment: Fact check: The photographer was a concerned member of the public, not a Sun Photographer. Nichola Sturgeon was in a Public House, not in the open air.  She did break the rules that she herself imposed, and has since acknowledged this and apologised for this. Police Scotland stated: “The first minister has acknowledged this inadvertent breach for which she has apologised. We remind everyone of the requirement to wear face coverings in indoor public places for public health reasons.”

Offline roopat

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 23 December 20 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Sun photographer followed Nicola Sturgeon to the funeral of one of her civil servants and caught her speaking to two old women without wearing her mask, front page in the Sun despite her being socially distanced and in the open air. An apology from the First Minister despite no rules being broken.
 Meanwhile millions of pounds worth of perishable goods are piling up in Kent and Britain heads for disaster.

Skoosh.


I've never been a particular admirer of Nicola Sturgeon but she's taken a firm approach to this situation all the way through. I think this 'news' story was ridiculous. Most of us have made small mistakes & anyway she was outside & well distanced. Plenty of other notable figures eg politicians, 'celebrities', scientists, tv presenters, actors have done far worse during this year and shown no remorse & had no sanctions.
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Offline louisa maud

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 23 December 20 10:28 GMT (UK) »
They should ALL  be setting a good example whoever they are

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Offline Viktoria

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Re: Giving the gift of Covid-19 this Christmas
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 23 December 20 10:40 GMT (UK) »
I have the dates for my vaccination, T he first  Dec29th , not at my local health centre but a bus ride away in Bury!
It seems stupid to me ,I don’t use public transport now ,rely on son or do without .
People who have already had theirs say it was a forty minute wait in the cold rain, well for the age group being vaccinated , that is a problem in itself.
 We have been pretty much indoors for a good while ,especially those without gardens .
People are doing their best,well some are !
Other- whining about a spoilt Christmas, well December 25 th has not gone away , if it means limited or no contact with family ,so what?
 Stick  to the rules and you have a better chance of seeing them next
Christmas  ,ignore the rules and you
may never see them again!
We have so many ways of contacting people nowadays, where previously a letter or perhaps a phone call,and that often at a public phone kiosk - were all we had.
People never saw each other for four or more years ,upset,sad,lonely, yes all of those and more ,but they got through those years, even though worried because some of them would be in great danger in war zones , the others in great danger from air raids at home.
In many ways this insidious virus is worse I admit , but I can tell you from personal experience to go through a bombing raid is no laughing matter .
Londoners experienced night after night with no let up of intense bombing .
Picked themselves up after the All Clear and  went about their daily lives as well as they could ,many having lost everything .
We are at least in our own homes, our own beds ,in some contact with loved ones even those on the other side of the world .
There is no rationing , no shortage of fuel .
 We have entertainment in our own homes ,in many forms ,not just a crackly  radio .
Who does not have a phone nowadays?
If people would only grow up and stick to rules!
Seee the greater picture ,and look outside themselves and be unselfish .
Because unless they do ——!
Christmas next year will be an awful lot worse,for those few still alive.

Viktoria

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