Author Topic: Resurrecting William de Fiennes - One word of Latin - 1240  (Read 126 times)

Offline horselydown86

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Resurrecting William de Fiennes - One word of Latin - 1240
« on: Tuesday 29 December 20 17:00 GMT (UK) »
I would like please to confirm a reading from the Fine Rolls of Henry III in 1240.

The attached entry for Buckinghamshire has been officially translated as:

Buckinghamshire. The king, upon the death of William de Fiennes, has taken homage from Enguerrand, son and heir of the same William , for the lands that he held of the king in chief. Order to the sheriff of Buckinghamshire to take security for his relief.

However, surely the key word is cessione(m), and William (still living) has merely surrendered his lands to his son?

Thank you for your help.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Resurrecting William de Fiennes - One word of Latin - 1240
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 29 December 20 18:30 GMT (UK) »
Difficult one, and I don’t have enough specialist knowledge to advise.

Cessio has several different meanings – a ceasing or stopping, retirement, resignation, giving-up, surrendering, conceding etc. While it could refer to the landholding, it might also refer to William’s life, especially as his son is described here as his son and heir.

Can conclusions be drawn from any other similar entries (if you have sufficient access)?
Do you have reason to believe that William was still living at this time?
As far as you can tell, does the ‘official translation’ appear reliable in other respects?

ADDED – I now see that the translation is from the highly prestigious Henry III Fine Rolls Project, whose investigators will have seen and considered every available document in the series. I would be very confident of their correct interpretation of the text.
https://finerollshenry3.org.uk/content/information/project_info.html


Offline horselydown86

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Re: Resurrecting William de Fiennes - One word of Latin - 1240
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 30 December 20 03:20 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, Bookbox, for your considered thoughts.

Can conclusions be drawn from any other similar entries (if you have sufficient access)?
Do you have reason to believe that William was still living at this time?

The same Fine Rolls search gives two subsequent records for William de Fiennes (in 1241 and 1242 - see attached).  I can't confirm these dates from the images on the website.

Neither gives a title or relationship to prove he is the same man as the father in the record of 4 July 1240.

I don't have anything concrete for William's death at this stage of my research.  As a peer he appears on dozens of (largely unsourced) online trees, some of which have him dying in 1240 while others have him dying in the Holy Land in 1241.  (I'm yet to find the source for the latter claim.)

I shall leave his death as uncertain for now and continue with my research.

Thanks again.