Author Topic: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family  (Read 944 times)

Offline nicdigby

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 29 December 20 23:53 GMT (UK) »
There is a " Grew James George (sometimes known as James Grew) of Union[...]ter, Bagnidge Wells-rd, journeyman tea urn manufacturer" in Perry's Bankrupt Gazette,    Saturday,  Apr. 22, 1854

Thank you very much, this is interesting as there is also a record of him being sentenced to 6 months for larceny and ending up in the workhouse.
The Essex Digbys of Finchingfield/Little Sampford & Pimlico, London + Pidgeon-Howletts of Norfolk + Grews of Stoke Newington/Bethnal Green + Pearse of Hitchin, Herts + Hills of Bedfordshire and Brampton, Hunts.

Offline nicdigby

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 29 December 20 23:54 GMT (UK) »
Am suspicious this is the wrong family....when his son got married in 1869 it has James the father 's profession as a coppersmith and the surname is Grew.

Assuming you're looking for Grew, I think the 1851 is probably the correct family.

The 1847 birth index entry for John Grew shows his motherís maiden name as Triggs, and the 1851 shows another son James with the middle name Triggs.

According to the 1869 marriage the father was James George Grew.

James George Grew married Eliza Triggs 1839 St Brideís, when he was a Brazier.

Coppersmith/brazier/tea urn maker all involve working with metal.

Thank you, it's all coming together now! Just found him as father of the groom in 1869 to James Triggs Grew where father's prof is tea urn maker.
The Essex Digbys of Finchingfield/Little Sampford & Pimlico, London + Pidgeon-Howletts of Norfolk + Grews of Stoke Newington/Bethnal Green + Pearse of Hitchin, Herts + Hills of Bedfordshire and Brampton, Hunts.

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 30 December 20 00:01 GMT (UK) »

Is this your family?

Ancestry London BDM

St Thomas Bethnal Green  22 Aug 1869
GREW John  bachelor   22y  brass finisher   res. 32 Weymouth Terrace
Father     James George GREW   coppersmith

COLEY Martha  spinster  20y  res. 2 Hatfield St
Father  Job COLEY      smith

Witnesses  Thomas KEATING     Mary Ann  (STREET?)        all sign


St Thomas Bethnal Green  29 Jun 1873
GREW Jane  spinster   19y     res. -
Father     James George GREW   coppersmith

GAYE Thomas   23y  bachelor  french polisher   res. 10 St Thomas St
Father  Richard GAYE    bootmaker

Witnesses   Alfred GREW     William OB****          all sign


Offline nicdigby

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 30 December 20 00:03 GMT (UK) »

Is this your family?

Ancestry London BDM

St Thomas Bethnal Green  22 Aug 1869
GREW John  bachelor   22y  brass finisher   res. 32 Weymouth Terrace
Father     James George GREW   coppersmith

COLEY Martha  spinster  20y  res. 2 Hatfield St
Father  Job COLEY      smith

Witnesses  Thomas KEATING     Mary Ann  (STREET?)        all sign


St Thomas Bethnal Green  29 Jun 1873
GREW Jane  spinster   19y     res. -
Father     James George GREW   coppersmith

GAYE Thomas   23y  bachelor  french polisher   res. 10 St Thomas St
Father  Richard GAYE    bootmaker

Witnesses   Alfred GREW     William OB****          all sign

yes, that's the son of James, John. John is my 2nd great GF
The Essex Digbys of Finchingfield/Little Sampford & Pimlico, London + Pidgeon-Howletts of Norfolk + Grews of Stoke Newington/Bethnal Green + Pearse of Hitchin, Herts + Hills of Bedfordshire and Brampton, Hunts.

Offline maddys52

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 30 December 20 00:58 GMT (UK) »

Thank you very much, this is interesting as there is also a record of him being sentenced to 6 months for larceny and ending up in the workhouse.

There is a James GREW sentenced to 6 months for larceny in Dec 1800, however his wife's name is Ann - is this the case you are referring to?
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18001203-16-defend102&div=t18001203-16#highlight

Some additional info re the bankruptcy in 1854:
"IN RE JAMES GEORGE GREW
In this case the insolvent's wife was called, and admitted
that she had deceived her husband as to the receipt of some
money.
The insolvent now admitted that on the former hearing he
had made a false statement to save his wife from being
examined.
Mr. Commissioner Phillips said, after such an admission,
the petition could not be allowed to remain on the files of the
court. Here was a man stating that he had committed per-
jury to save his wife from being called as a witness.
The petition was dismissed."
Morning Chronicle,    Monday,  May 8, 1854


Offline nicdigby

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 30 December 20 23:07 GMT (UK) »

Thank you very much, this is interesting as there is also a record of him being sentenced to 6 months for larceny and ending up in the workhouse.

There is a James GREW sentenced to 6 months for larceny in Dec 1800, however his wife's name is Ann - is this the case you are referring to?
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18001203-16-defend102&div=t18001203-16#highlight

Some additional info re the bankruptcy in 1854:
"IN RE JAMES GEORGE GREW
In this case the insolvent's wife was called, and admitted
that she had deceived her husband as to the receipt of some
money.
The insolvent now admitted that on the former hearing he
had made a false statement to save his wife from being
examined.
Mr. Commissioner Phillips said, after such an admission,
the petition could not be allowed to remain on the files of the
court. Here was a man stating that he had committed per-
jury to save his wife from being called as a witness.
The petition was dismissed."
Morning Chronicle,    Monday,  May 8, 1854

Thankss for this but I don't think it's the same person. I have this from Ancestry:

The Essex Digbys of Finchingfield/Little Sampford & Pimlico, London + Pidgeon-Howletts of Norfolk + Grews of Stoke Newington/Bethnal Green + Pearse of Hitchin, Herts + Hills of Bedfordshire and Brampton, Hunts.

Offline nicdigby

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 30 December 20 23:44 GMT (UK) »
I'm still stuck with this: cannot find George Grew baptism.

**Shall I continue with the thread here or start a new one in the London/Middlesex section?** I don't want to start too many threads but at the same time this is not the London/Middlesex section?????? I don't want to get told off or waste anyone's time by double-posting it.

In case the thread should stay here, then: George GREW

1841 census = living with his son = says he is 50 = birth yr 1891 + Born Stoke Newington
1851 census = living with his son = age difficult to read but pp said it says 65 = birth year abt 1786 + Born Stoke Newington
Death Reg on GRO , George Grew died in 1859 age 72 = birth year abt 1787.
GRO Reference: 1859  S Quarter in CLERKENWELL  Volume 01B  Page 354

I think the latter death record is correct because he is living with his son in 1841 and 1851 but has disappeared by the time we get to the 1861 census.

There is a possible baptism on FindMyPast but it's 30 May 1784 - surely this is too early? But it is at Bethnal Green, close to Stoke Newington.

I have looked on Anc, FindMyPast and FS. Would appreciate if anyone can offer any more guidance on this?

NB: he married Eliz Mowat in 1809.
The Essex Digbys of Finchingfield/Little Sampford & Pimlico, London + Pidgeon-Howletts of Norfolk + Grews of Stoke Newington/Bethnal Green + Pearse of Hitchin, Herts + Hills of Bedfordshire and Brampton, Hunts.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 31 December 20 00:12 GMT (UK) »
Censuses are seldom accurate for the eras prior to 1901/1911

I've had ages differ by 20 yrs over the census periods i.e. a difference of 2 - 5 yrs can be expected.

Annie
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Offline JenB

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Re: Cannnot decipher 1841 and 1851 census for same family
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 31 December 20 09:11 GMT (UK) »
1841 census = living with his son = says he is 50 = birth yr 1891 + Born Stoke Newington
1851 census = living with his son = age difficult to read but pp said it says 65 = birth year abt 1786 + Born Stoke Newington

Please bear in mind that in the 1841 census the ages of over 15 year olds were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. So someone showing on the census as 50 could actually be anything up to 54 years old.
See here, about half way down the page
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~framland/history/census/1841directions.htm

There were, of course some occasions when this instruction wasn't followed.
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