John Edward Roberts - Born approximately 1892-1894 - Iowerth??

[Sassenach73]

Hi to all and a Happy New Year!

I've been making good progress with my friend's family tree however have been struggling with her Great Aunt's husband, one John Edward Roberts - born 17 November 1894 on 1939 register, (although possible school registration states 17 Nov 1892).  I have struggled to find a birth although found his marriage to Ann Elizabeth "Bessie" Evans and his two sons, his death and probate and this is where I am somewhat confused ..... on his Probate and death his name is John Edward Roberts - but in two newspaper obituaries, he is listed on his own obituary as "John Edward (Iowerth) Roberts, beloved husband of Bessie", etc etc - and on Bessie's own obituary she was listed as "beloved wife of the late Iowerth Roberts".... Would this just be a nickname or pet name or does this mean that he could well have originally been born Iowerth and the John Edward being a later change?  Could this be an original surname or extra name if he was born out of wedlock, for example, - Any help would be most appreciated. 

Many thanks

Michelle

[lizdb]

It could mean any of those things! Or something we havent thought of.

Who does he name as his father on his marriage cert?

And does school record show father's name?

[heddwch]

Found this dont know if it helps

Iorwerth ( Welsh pronunciation: [ˈjɔrwɛrθ]) is a Welsh name, composed of two elements: iôr meaning "lord" and berth meaning "fair" or "handsome". (Both morphemes are somewhat archaic in Modern Welsh.) The name has historically been associated with the name Edward, although the names do not have a common origin...


Heddwch

[Sassenach73]

It could mean any of those things! Or something we havent thought of.

Who does he name as his father on his marriage cert?

And does school record show father's name?

That's what I thought too lol - re, his fathers name, I've only managed to find the very basics online - no father's name - just the civil record.  I guess I would need the full marriage cert to find out for sure!  On the school registration it simply lists J.Roberts as a parent.  The plot does thicken here as there is a John Edward Roberts who is living with his "brother" one, Jesse Roberts, A Baptist Minister, in the 1911 census - Jesse being 20 years older than John - on the 1901 register he is listed as living with Jesse, Baptist Minister), and Jesse's sister Fanny, but John is listed as being Nephew - again, 20 years difference between the two! 

[Sassenach73]

Found this dont know if it helps

Iorwerth ( Welsh pronunciation: [ˈjɔrwɛrθ]) is a Welsh name, composed of two elements: iôr meaning "lord" and berth meaning "fair" or "handsome". (Both morphemes are somewhat archaic in Modern Welsh.) The name has historically been associated with the name Edward, although the names do not have a common origin...


Heddwch

Ah, thank you very much for that - so it could be a pet family name maybe? 

[heddwch]

Hi there

Is this your ancestors  death please   Thanks  Heddwch

Name:   John Edward Roberts
Death Age:   82
Birth Date:   17 Nov 1894
Registration Date:   Apr 1977
[May 1977]
[Jun 1977]
Registration Quarter:   Apr-May-Jun
Registration District:   Colwyn
Inferred County:   Clwyd

Volume:   24
Page:   0128

[heddwch]

View1939 England and Wales Register
Name:   Jno E Roberts
[John E Roberts]
Gender:   Male
Marital Status:   Married
Birth Date:   17 Nov 1894
Residence Year:   1939
Address:   11
Residence Place:   Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
Occupation:   Inspector ministry of Hea??
Line Number:   40
Schedule Number:   96
Sub Schedule Number:   1
Enumeration District:   XIAF
Borough:   Swansea
Registration district:   594-1
Inferred Spouse:   
Ann Eliz Roberts
Inferred Children:   
Roger H Roberts
Household Members   Age
Jno E Roberts   45
Ann Eliz Roberts
44
Beryl Williams
17
Roger H Roberts
10
This record is officially closed.

[lizdb]

Jesse (and Fanny) were children of a Robert and Hannah.  Whether that John Edward was a younger child, or an illegit child of Fanny (though she would be too young), or a child of one of the other siblings, remains to be seen. And also whether or not that John Edward is "yours" ie the one marrying Ann.
You may need that marriage cert to confirm.

1881
5 Sweetnam Row Mold-Leeswood
Robert 43 coal miner  bn Leeswood
Hannah  44 bn Mold
John 20
Margaret 14
Martha 10
Jesse 9
William 7
Sarah 5
Louisa 4
Robert 2
Fanny 4 mths

1891
same address
Robert, Hannah and William 17, Sarah 16, Louisa 15, Robert J 12, Fanny 10

Hannah now 53 so not likely to be John Edwards mother two or three years later!

He must be a child of one of Jesses siblings - either illegit of a sister or that of a brother. So need to follow each sibling and see what becomes of them!

[Sassenach73]

Hi there

Is this your ancestors  death please   Thanks  Heddwch

Name:   John Edward Roberts
Death Age:   82
Birth Date:   17 Nov 1894
Registration Date:   Apr 1977
[May 1977]
[Jun 1977]
Registration Quarter:   Apr-May-Jun
Registration District:   Colwyn
Inferred County:   Clwyd

Volume:   24
Page:   0128

Hi, Yes it is