Author Topic: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80  (Read 175705 times)

Offline Garen

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #351 on: Wednesday 08 January 20 09:52 GMT (UK) »
Hello Charlie

Thanks for your post. I do still accept information for my Afghan War database - I'm just much slower at processing things these days due to time constraints. But still very much interested!

The uniform does indeed appear to be that of the 15th East Yorks. - the collar badge is correct, but I'm afraid my knowledge of Victorian army uniforms doesn't go much further.

The three stripes is for sergeant, and the crown and crossed flags might indicate a colour sergeant or staff sergeant or something - any experts out there?

Certainly on the Afghan War medal roll he is recorded as Sergeant C. Cottrell (no. 2165).

Best regards - Garen
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

Offline Charlie24

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #352 on: Thursday 09 January 20 00:14 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Garen
I have researched his time in India quite extensively. In particular I borrowed a copy of Robert John Jones's "History of the 15th etc..." from the library & was able to match the regimental record with his personal service record. A fascinating tale.
Regards
Charlie

Offline FROGSMILE

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #353 on: Wednesday 11 March 20 09:48 GMT (UK) »
He is a Colour Sergeant of the 15th Regiment of Foot, or East Yorkshire Regiment if after July 1881.  The chain emerging from his white piped full dress tunic front is for a pocket watch.  The Colour Sergeant was the senior enlisted man in an infantry company and fulfilled a role that we would nowadays call company sergeant major. The famous senior NCO portrayed in the film ZULU depicted a Colour Sergeant. At the time of the photo there were 8 companies, A to F, and each had a Colour Sergeant.  It was from the Colour Sergeants that the two most senior men in a battalion, the Quarter Master Sergeant and Sergeant Major of Battalion were selected.  Some of them retired to become Musketry Instructor Sergeants in auxiliary units at home in Britain.  He also wears the typical scarlet worsted shoulder sash worn by all sergeants of infantry. His collar badge is the 8-point star first adopted by the regiment as itís insignia and that previously adorned the soldiers buttons. It continued to do so for officers.


Offline Garen

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #354 on: Wednesday 11 March 20 10:04 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for that, Frogsmile - excellent info. Whenever I get a question on uniforms I always think of you!

Best - Garen
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

Offline FROGSMILE

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #355 on: Wednesday 11 March 20 11:38 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for that, Frogsmile - excellent info. Whenever I get a question on uniforms I always think of you!

Best - Garen

Good to make contact since the demise of VWF, old friend.  Now that I can see on a laptop screen rather than my phone I can confirm that he wears the 15th (Yorkshire East Riding) Regiment's 1873-1881 Tunic with pre-1881 collar badges, so there would be the brass numerals 15 at the base of his shoulder strap, which you can just discern.  It's an unusual, hybrid tunic, as it has the 1870 pattern tunic's fully faced, yellow collar (instead of just a patch), but the 1873 style of cuff decoration, whereby the piping that forms a crows foot does not extend all the way to the back.  These differences all reflect that battalion staff and colour sergeants all had their tunics made bespoke by the battalion's master tailor, a sergeant.  He clearly wears a tunic that he's had some time and then had it modified to meet contemporary regulations.  It's a real snapshot in time and cannot be later than 1880 I think.

Best_

Frogsmile

N.B.  The yellow collar appears dark because of the imperfect colour rendering of photographic processes of that time.

Offline Charlie24

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #356 on: Wednesday 11 March 20 23:28 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for this Frogsmile.
Really interesting.
Very much appreciated.
Regards
Charlie

Offline FROGSMILE

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #357 on: Thursday 12 March 20 00:02 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for this Frogsmile.
Really interesting.
Very much appreciated.
Regards
Charlie

I am glad to have been of assistance Charlie. Thank you for posting the photo, itís great to see and interpret its details.  The information I provided is based on research by Michael Barthorp and Bryan Fosten, as the principals amongst others.

Offline Charlie24

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #358 on: Saturday 14 March 20 01:49 GMT (UK) »
Hello again Frogsmile
I have been looking again at the very interesting information you provided.
I wonder if you know what the badge is on the left sleeve, just above the cuff? It looks like a pair of crossed swords?
Regards
Charlie

Offline FROGSMILE

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #359 on: Saturday 14 March 20 07:23 GMT (UK) »
Hello again Frogsmile
I have been looking again at the very interesting information you provided.
I wonder if you know what the badge is on the left sleeve, just above the cuff? It looks like a pair of crossed swords?
Regards
Charlie

Itís a marksmanís badge comprising crossed rifle muskets.  These badges became highly prized after the issue of rifles across the infantry as a whole, whereas previously they had only been the specialist arm of the two rifle regiments, the 60th and the Rifle Brigade.  Qualification attracted extra pay of a penny per diem, but had to be re-earned each year.  Later on prize badges were awarded with stars or crowns above and sergeants were incentivised to train their men diligently by being awarded a similar badge surmounted by a crown if they were a sergeant in the Ďbest shooting companyí as determined by competition each year.