Author Topic: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80  (Read 216742 times)

Offline Bill93185

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #441 on: Thursday 27 April 23 03:52 BST (UK) »
"In 1863 the Royal Navy was instructed to build and operate on behalf of the Indian government five steamships specially designed for trooping. The rigged iron screw steamships Crocodile, Euphrates, Jumna, Malabar and Seraphis of 6,211 tons, 360 feet long with a 49 foot beam, were built in 1866 and served as troopships until 1894. Like later troopships they had white hulls with a blue coloured riband and yellow funnels. In 1894, instead of replacing these five troopships, which were by then worn out by nearly 30 years of service, the Admiralty invited tenders for troopships which the government could charter with the shipowners to be responsible for managing and manning the ships and for victualling them, a system which proved more economical than running government owned ships, and would continue until the troopship era ended. The ships were designed to carry a complete battalion of troops. The Indian Government paid the costs of running the service but the Royal Navy operated the ships."
source: https://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/troopships/ts001.shtml

https://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/navyships/indiantroopships/troopshipmalabar.htm
https://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/navyships/indiantroopships/troopshipserapis.htm
https://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/navyships/indiantroopships/troopshipeuphrates.htm (the title says Malabar, but it's the Euphrates)
HMS Crocodile (below)

Answer

Hello Andy J2022
Thank you for your information, very comprehensive indeed. I will need to spend some time reading.

A bit of info from my records........ "Patrick Croke, now in the 1st Bn, and with the 2nd Bn 18th Foot (his previous regiment) were transported on Troop ship HMS Malabar for India via the Suez Canal arriving at Bombay 15 Nov 1874."

Thanks
Bill Croke - Australia

Offline Bill93185

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #442 on: Thursday 27 April 23 04:01 BST (UK) »
All I can say is it's not the Crocodile as I researched that, and it was at Portsmouth in Apr 1879 (must get round to the others some day!)

https://www.garenewing.co.uk/angloafghanwar/resources/troopship_crocodile.php


Answer

Hello Garen
Thank you again.  When looking at you website previously I did think that the Troop ship Crocodile was a contender, until I later I saw that ship was in Portsmouth from 6 April to 1 Sept 1879.

Patrick left India 15 April 1879 !

Thanks Bill Croke - Australia

Offline Bill93185

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #443 on: Thursday 27 April 23 04:07 BST (UK) »
Euphrates left Bombay on 13 April 1879

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Hi ShaunJ
Thanks for the ship name "Euphrates" If my date is correct (15 April 1879) there must have been a few ships waiting to leave Bombay. If my date is incorrect.... I need to check.

Thanks Bill Croke - Australia

Offline Bill93185

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #444 on: Thursday 27 April 23 04:21 BST (UK) »
Newspapers in mid-May 1879 report the arrival of the Jumna at Portsmouth, with a number of cases of measles on board.

Passengers included 38 officers, 402 time-expired men and Invalids, 103 women, and 277 children.

Answer

Hello ShaunJ
Thanks....."Jumna left Bombay on 16th April - seems the most likely one". Yes it looks like it particularly from reported newspaper of the day. And with Measles on board.

Question
Would you have any information on the newspaper, perhaps name etc?

Thanks again
Bill Croke - Australia



Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #445 on: Thursday 27 April 23 10:38 BST (UK) »
There are many reports of the Jumna's arrival. This one is from The Scotsman of 16 May 1879
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Bill93185

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #446 on: Thursday 27 April 23 10:56 BST (UK) »
Hi ShaunJ.
Excellent work. Thanks for the news article you sent me, I doubt if I could find anything.

Moving foreword
I will need to put things together and hopefully be the conclusion of Patrick Croke.

Cheers Bill Croke - Australia

Offline Garen

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #447 on: Thursday 27 April 23 10:57 BST (UK) »
A bit of info from my records........ "Patrick Croke, now in the 1st Bn, and with the 2nd Bn 18th Foot (his previous regiment) were transported on Troop ship HMS Malabar for India via the Suez Canal arriving at Bombay 15 Nov 1874."

Just as a footnote, all the sources I have for my troopship movements (link below) show the Malabar arrived 13 Nov 1874. Not a big difference, but let me know the source to double-check.

https://www.garenewing.co.uk/angloafghanwar/resources/regiments_englandindia.php
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

Offline Bill93185

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #448 on: Friday 28 April 23 02:18 BST (UK) »
Hello Garen

Regarding HMS Malabar arriving Bombay.

I have two documents that I referred to.

The first was from WO 12/3565 1874-1874 a muster record I obtained. It states in part .."the draft joins on the 20th October 1874 and by the end of November 1874 muster, they are in Bareilly..." as this referenced Bareilly as their final destination. I only used this as a guide and found my second document.

The second was taken from
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/59779/59779-h/59779-h.htm

i.e.
First Battalion.
1874. Oct. 20   Embarked at Malta for Bombay.
        Nov. 15   Landed at Bombay.
               25   Arrived at Bareilly; detachment at Moradabad.

I used this article for my reference as I thought it seems to fit??

Please let me know of the outcome?
Cheers Bill Croke - Australia

Offline Garen

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Re: Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80
« Reply #449 on: Friday 28 April 23 09:34 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that, Bill.

My sources on the date are the newspapers, and they will have syndicated the mails that came out from Bombay which stated that the Malabar arrived at Bombay on Friday 13 Nov - this was reported on Sat 14th Nov, which would seem to discount the Sun 15th Nov date. In many pieces it went along with the news that the Malabar's captain, Capt. Nott, had died on board during the journey (Oct 26 at Ismailia).

I guess we can't be sure of Gretton's sources for his book - it may be that the ship was expected on the 15th but arrived early - arrival estimates weren't always accurate - and he could have found that date. Or he may have misread a document, mistranscribed it in his notes, or copied a mistake.

Or he cold be right, and the newspapers wrong. Sometimes the dates in newspapers are a little off, but the reporting for the Malabar arriving at Bombay seems very unambiguous (eg. it "arrived yesterday", rather than it being "expected" today or tomorrow, etc).

I think I'd go with the newspapers on this one, but keep an eye out for other first-hand sources to confirm.
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/