Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80

[rhec]

My mother was a Simpson from County Tyrone and her uncles enlisted in the 78th Highlanders and were killed in India or Afghanistan and I'd like to know more if that can be found. Their Christian names were Thomas, John, Walter, James, Hugh and Robert. Family story is that possibly only 4 served in India or Afghanistan. They may have enlisted when the regiment was in Ireland 1871 - 1873.
If anyone has any info, then I would appreciate it.
Thanks.

[SoozC]

Hi
I have just started researching my family tree and came across these e mails on the Roots website. The  James Drummond mentioned here appears to be my great great granfather. My great grandfather being the charles drummond (! year) mentioned here. His daugther was Kathleen Nellie Drummond, who was born in Newport in 1902, so will not appear on a census until next year. She would have been the sister of the Charles Roy Drummond you mention as the being the grandfather of your husband.
The information about James Drummond is very interesting and it is great to have seen a photo of him.
SoozC

Hi McKen, thank you so much for your email, I too have been investigating my husband's family tree and am convinced that they are indeed related to each other!
Colour Sergeant James Drummond, 92nd Foot Gordon Highlanders, was my husband's great great grandfather and was living with his wife Jane, daughters Jane (3yrs), Margaret (3months) and son Charles (1year) at 12 Wales Street, Aberdeen according to the 1871 Scottish Census (unfortunately we don't have access to the handwritten copy of the census, just a basic typed version).  He went on to have another son James in 1874 and I think a daughter, Katherine, in India in 1878 (ref: 1881 census).
Whilst living in India as a soldier with his family....'on the occasion of the Imperial Assemblage at Delhi, to honour Queen Victoria being proclaimed Empress of India (1876), one sergeant from each regiment present, received a commemoration medal.  For the 92nd, this was James Drummond.
He was then posted to Afghanistan where he received the Aghan War medal with two clasps for Charasia (6 Oct 1879) and Kabul (10-23 Dec 1879).  His army number was 488.
Unfortunately on 13 December 1879, he received a gunshot wound to the abdomen during hand to hand fighting at the assault on the Takht-i-Shah near Kabul and was killed.  Surgeon Duke described his death ...
'James Drummond, a Highlander, stood over the fallen body of Lieutenant St John Forbes and bravely defended him, shooting one Afghan and endeavouring to bayonet another, who then seized the Highlander's rifle and a deadly struggle took place, during which he was cut down from behind and killed and then also Lt St John Forbes who he had tried to save.  Such is the manner in which Lieutenant St John Forbes and Colour Sergeant James Drummond met their death.'
However, whilst researching a little for Lt St John Forbes, I came across this: 'Lieutenant St John William Forbes was killed at Kabul on 13 December 1879.  He was the third son of Lt Col John Forbes and Lucy Whitmore and born at Malvern Link 20 January 1856.  He was at Charasiah, Kabul and the expedition to Maidan.  On 13 December 1879 he led his men to the summit of Takht-i-Shah and was protecting the body of Colour Sergeant James Drummond when he was shot through the head'.  (he was 23 years old at the time and this piece included a small photo of the young lieutenant)
The regimental notes add that James Drummond had 21 years service, was a native of Stanley in Perthshire, and an athlete who excelled in putting the stone and throwing the hammer.
I would like to say that Garen Ewing of RootsChat.co was so helpful in our research and gave us most of the service history for James Drummond, including a photo of him with the famous Hector MacDonald.
After he died we presume his wife and children returned to Scotland.  His two sons we believe (ref: 1881 Scottish census - Charles aged 11 and James aged 7) went to the Orphan Hospital, Midlothian.  Unfortunately we had no further information about the family, except for Charles who went on to become my husband's great grandfather, until we received your email.
The family story goes that Charles "walked" south to find work.  He appears on 1891 census for Stockton-on-Tees, Durham; I then found a marriage certificate showing he married Alice Mary Bush on 19 October 1893 in Kensington, Mddx which states he was a 'dyer' and his father a soldier deceased.  On the 1901 census, it shows he has moved to Newport, Monmouth with his wife and 3 children.  One of which, Charles Roy Drummond, goes on to be the grandfather of my husband.
Going back to the 1851 Scottish census, I've found a Charles Drummond, born about 1804 in Redgorton, living in Stanley with his wife Isabella and 6 children, one of which is a James Drummond aged 11 (could this be our Colour Sergeant?).  And going back even further, to the 1841 Scottish census, Charles appears here but with his wife Galdla Drummond and James at a year old.  So if this is correct, then we could have found the parents of James Drummond ie Charles and Galdla, our husbands' great great great grandparents.
I think this is all the information I have so far and hope that it contains some new material for you.  I will try and pass on the 2 photos mentioned and a copy of our family tree if you like but please do keep in touch,  I can always send you my email address!

[Alba11]

Hello rhec

This may not be relevant to your Simpson search.  I have checked the Medal Roll for the 2nd Anglo Afghan War for the 78th (Seaforth) Highlanders.  There was only one Simpson mentioned, and he may not be one of yours? However, John  Simpson, Pipe Major, 78th Highlanders (Service no 1827)was awarded a medal for his service in the conflict.  The report was issued at Lucknow in 1882

Hope this helps
Alba11

[SoozC]

Hi Drummo
I have just started researching my family tree and came across these e mails on the Roots website. The  James Drummond mentioned here appears to be my great great granfather. My great grandfather being the charles drummond (! year) mentioned here. His daugther was Kathleen Nellie Drummond, who was born in Newport in 1902, so will not appear on a census until next year. She would have been the sister of the Charles Roy Drummond you mention as the being the grandfather of your husband.
The information about James Drummond is very interesting and it is great to have seen a photo of him.
SoozC

[alcollins]

AlCollins here - I had a paternal great Grand Father Patrick McKenna born Tyrone 1840 - enlisted RHA in Newry in 1859 - based in Madras - believe serves in Artillery in Afghan and 3rd Burma Wars - last heard of in Burma in 1886 with rank of Conductor. Have searched National Archives, only found his enlistment at the British Library. Can not find where he died and is buried. Could someone help me, PLEASE!?

[skarm]

AlCollins here - I had a paternal great Grand Father Patrick McKenna born Tyrone 1840 - enlisted RHA in Newry in 1859 - based in Madras - believe serves in Artillery in Afghan and 3rd Burma Wars - last heard of in Burma in 1886 with rank of Conductor. Have searched National Archives, only found his enlistment at the British Library. Can not find where he died and is buried. Could someone help me, PLEASE!?

Hi,

I have some experience with this (I had a G-G-Grandfather served in this campaign). If you believe the soldier survived until discharge, you should try to consult the WO/97 areas of the National Archives. If you believe he died on active duty, that is harder. Another ancestor died while on active duty, thankfully in England, but there was no trace of him via military sources (as there was no pension, etc.). Some sites such as familysearch.org have limited records from the colonial area. As my ancestor was in India for the Indian Mutiny and his sons enlisted and fought in Afghanistan, I've had to use this resource quite frequently and usually have had it work out for me, but it can be frustrating.

[Garen]

For some reason I stopped getting alerts for this topic, so am a bit behind on my posts. Work has kept me away from Afghan War research recently anyway, but I'm just going to have a little catch-up this morning.

Best - Garen

[Garen]

Hello Garen,

My grt grandfather did go to Afghanistan but not until Oct 1880 and stayed there until Jan 1883. I imagine he missed the 2nd Afghan War and maybe was just part of a force maintaining the peace?

I've attached a copy of his 'military history sheet' for your interest. He was in the 37th Brigade (no. 971) which became the Glosters.

Regards,
Phil

Hello Phil

Yes, if he entered Afghanistan in October 1880 the conflict had ended by then (hence no Afghan War medal).

The Gloucestershire Regiment came into being in 1881 with the amalgamation of the 28th and 61st Foot (the 37th Brigade is not the regiment). I believe Alfred Wilks would have been with the 61st Foot, who were at Sibi and adjacent posts and along the Quetta line of communications in Dec 1880.

Best wishes - Garen

[Garen]

HI Garen

I have a book called the The Second  Afghan War  1878-1880  Casualty Roll  by Athony Farrington  a great sourse of infromation if you need any help let me know.

Biggles

Thanks very much Biggles - that's an essential book in my research, so I do have a copy. (Here is a list of books in my Afghan War library).

All best - Garen