Author Topic: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.  (Read 724 times)

Offline johnhood

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 09 January 21 17:01 GMT (UK) »
"quote"

On all census records, Arthur claims to have been born in Islington, but we (my siblings and I) have never been able to prove same.

1871 census records his birthplace as Ipswich. Aged 21 (c1850) with wife Laura and daughter Grace.

I can find 6 children born to this couple prior to her death in 1885

John
HOOD- STAFFORDSHIRE/LONDON/AUSTRALIA
WALKER-LONDON
HIGGS-LONDON
GOSLING-DEVON

Offline Threezzzs

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 09 January 21 17:19 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for the many replies from all concerned.  In truth, I hadn't expected such an immediate response.  Regarding my Arthur's marriage records.  I'm afraid my use of the plural might be slightly misleading.  Oddly, Arthur Sydney Seaborne and my G-Gran, Alice Clara Prentice appear to have married 'twice' over two days; i.e. once at a Registry office in Rochford, Essex, the other at the parish of Christchurch in Kent.  (The copies I have are hard to read.)

My use of the term, Bigamist, was probably harsh.  I've been working on the premise that if my Arthur and the Ipswich Arthur are one and the same, then he had probably abandoned the family and possibly not even been aware of the situation.  It's hard to accept that he (or anyone) would have left the children in that workhouse and never returned for them if he had known of their plight.

All of the other information each of you have so kindly provided I already have.  It's really a case of proving his claim to Islington (or not). 

Perhaps importantly is that some years ago I was in touch with a person I found on a well-known family tree site.  He has Arthur of Ipswich and Laura Lavinia Elliston in his ancestral roots, but insists that our two Arthurs are different, claiming that he can see from the census records that my Arthur was born in Islington.  But when I highlighted the years between Laura's death and my Arthur's marriage to my G-Gran, he admitted that he had not been able to find a death for his Arthur!

On the face of it, all the evidence seems to point to my Arthur fibbing about the Islington origin, being married to (a) Laura Lavinia and then (b) my Alice Clara.  The bug in the ointment, so to speak, is Arthur's Islington claim.

Any and all thoughts very welcome, but my sincere thanks to all respondees for your kind help.

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 09 January 21 21:38 GMT (UK) »
I think they are most likely one and the same but can't explain the Islington reference.

The first marriage certificate might be of use, for example to compare signatures with the one on his second marriage and to compare his fathers name and occupation.
Something to link them together as being one and the same person. 

If the Ipswich Arthur disappears and then the Islington Arthur appears with no overlap ie you can't find both of them at the same time then that is another indication there was only one person.

Do we know where he was in the 1891 census? 
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire


Online Annette7

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 09 January 21 22:26 GMT (UK) »
I agree with others who have posted - the Ipswich Arthur and the Islington Arthur are one and the same.

By the time he met and married Alice Clara Prentice his first wife had died (1885) and children ended up in care.   Times were so different then and it's hard for us to conceive the circumstances.   He had to work but had no none to look after his children hence them ending up in care.   I, personally, cannot find either Arthur in 1891 but would assume he had no contact with his children who appear to have been eventually moved to his home parish of Ipswich.

Then he meets and marries Alice - rather than admit his former life he 'acquires' a second christian name, knocks 10 years off his age, changes his birthplace and by claiming to be a bachelor avoids having to explain his 6 earlier children who are in care and whom we can only assume he had no further contact with.   Whilst I can understand how they ended up in care it's hard to accept that he effectively turned his back on them once they were which he did.   He clearly didn't want to be found by authorities hence his change of name/age/status/birthplace.

So sad.

Annette         
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Offline garstonite

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 10 January 21 06:58 GMT (UK) »
from Rootspoint 1881 census
https://www.rootspoint.com/record/1881-UK-Census/Arthur-Seaborn-1850-Ipswich-Suffolk-Lambeth/6b95762b-4816-48d4-9483-3edc8065f0a1/

I wonder what type of house it was ?

154, Mayall Rd
Lambeth, London
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:   
Arthur Seaborn (31, Male)
Laura Seaborn (29, Female)
Arthur Seaborn (6, Male)
Percy Seaborn (4, Male)
Robert Seaborn (2, Male)
Clara Frost (44, Female)
Clara J Frost (20, Female)
William G Frost (15, Male)
Frederick J Frost (8, Male)
George Hammerton (34, Male)
Annie Hammerton (36, Female)
William Hammerton (14, Male)
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline Threezzzs

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 10 January 21 07:51 GMT (UK) »
Thank you again for the very helpful input.  Regarding where my Arthur was in 1891, I have not been able to find a census record for him in that year.  However, in 1881, he has moved to Gathorne Terrace in Leeds, Yorks, where his son, Hadleigh Sydney Seaborne was born.  He is trading as a Commercial Book-keeper.

There is also family knowledge of a strong Salvation Army link.  His wife, my G-Gran Alice Clara, played the Cornet at some stage in one of the Sally Army's places (but no proof of same).  Family gossip is that Hadleigh, his son, was named because of the link to Hadleigh Farm.  Also, Arthur & Alice lost a son named William Boothe Seaborne, again, a pertinent reference to the founder of that army.

Regarding the house at 154 Mayall Rd, I have copied a Google image of it as it is today.  However, I have no other knowledge of that house or how it was used in that period.

I agree with Millipede, in that I have not been able to find any indication of an overlap between the 'two' Arthurs.  Equally, I haven't been able to tie him in to any form of military service, institution of other that might have explained a period of disappearance.

A final tit-bit that my Aunt mentioned and which my Mom also talked about in my very young years, was that he (Arthur) once worked as a Clerk at Australia House and had what both described as 'wonderful copper-plate hand-writing'.  There is some evidence of that in my Arthur's signature on the 1911 census, although, I wouldn't go so far as to describe it as such myself.  Because of the Australia reference, I put a deal of effort into Arthur Seabornes who might have travelled to Oz, NZ et al, but without any joy.

Sincere thanks again to each for your help.  In a way, you've reinforced my own sneaking conviction that the two Arthurs must be one and the same.  I was just a little reluctant to accept the obvious, I suppose.

But I'll keep digging anyway, just in case....! 

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 10 January 21 08:09 GMT (UK) »
Thank you again for the very helpful input.  Regarding where my Arthur was in 1891, I have not been able to find a census record for him in that year.  However, in 1881, he has moved to Gathorne Terrace in Leeds, Yorks, where his son, Hadleigh Sydney Seaborne was born.  He is trading as a Commercial Book-keeper.

Hadleigh Sydney was born in Essex ;D Rochford Registration District,
 
   SEABORNE, HADLEIGH  SYDNEY      (Mother's Maiden Name:) PRENTICE     
GRO Reference: 1896  D Quarter in ROCHFORD  Volume 04A  Page 559
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 10 January 21 08:39 GMT (UK) »
Presumably you eliminated this Arthur?

SEABORN, ARTHUR       FISHER 
GRO Reference: 1851  M Quarter in COLCHESTER  Volume 12  Page 70

Looks as if the above is living here in 1891 - Military Road, St Botolph, Colchester, Essex

Arthur (engine driver) with wife Isabella and six children.

Registration district   Colchester
Archive reference   RG12
Piece number   1406
Folio   81
Page   16

Marriages Mar 1872   
COOK    Isabella        Lexden    4a   379    
SEABORN    Arthur        Lexden    4a   379

I haven't gone either backwards or forwards to make any further checks.  Just flagging up that there was another Arthur in the same birth year time if not place.
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Offline ChrissieL

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Re: Actual Birth Location of Arthur Sydney Seaborne.
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 10 January 21 08:47 GMT (UK) »
Very interesting thread. In 1891 there are three Seaborne children, Percy, 13, Robert, 11 and Lily 8 noted as paupers, living in St John's Home, Ipswich.  They are all born in Middlesex. 

Chris
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