Sinney (Sinnie) Smith - Barnes: Smiths/Loveridge/Capel/Whitby

[Tracey-anne]

Hi everyone, 

I just found out (2121) that my nan was Roma in the Barns/Mortlake area: Smiths/Lovells/Loveridge/Capel/Whitby

For years I was unable to find my nan's side of the family.
One day, I was helping my partner, David Dighton, to build his family tree online and he said to look for a Roma connection due to the names that I had- Smith/Capel/Whitby.

It took forever to find Sinney (sometimes spelt Sinnie) due to my Uncle Roy thinking it was 'Sinnett', and then once found, her baptism details were incorrectly translated to Simeon, and written as a boy.

Eventually, I discovered that my nan (Ellen Wolstenholme, the maiden name Smith) was born the daughter of Sinney Smith who was married to George Whitby, and the daughter of Jacob Smith and Matilda Capel. It was quite the revelation!

I had sent off for my nan's birth Cert' and it confirmed Sinney and George were my nan's parents.

The connection was also confirmed that Sinney Smith was the daughter of Jacob Smith via her wedding banns to George Whitby. He signed as her father.

All of these documents were found on ancestry.co.uk - I now have a few trees there.

I knew nothing of the Roma connection so this is all new to me, and I have no contact with any family from my nan's side. I don't know anyone from this side of the family anymore.

My mum, Christine (daughter of Ellen), had no idea of Roma side either, it was kept quiet on the Wolstenholme side. Bless her, she was so happy that I found her grandparents as now in her 70's.
I thought by joining that it would help give us a sense of belonging to the world of my nan which we never knew.

I'm happy that 'Sinney' isn't a lost Roma anymore and she and the family will be remembered.

So, if anyone is wondering who 'Simeon Smith' is on Jacob Smith and Matilda Capel's line, it is actually 'Sinney Smith', a female not a boy.

List of connections, they might be helpful for others:

1. Charles Samuel Smith 1837-1893 - 3rd great-grandfather
Jacob Smith 1860-1901
Son of Charles Samuel Smith
Sinney (Sinnie) (Simeon) Smith 1886-1954
Daughter of Jacob Smith
Ellen Whitby 1914-2000
Daughter of Sinney (Sinnie) (Simeon) Smith
Christine Mary Wolstenholme 1950-
Daughter of Ellen Whitby
Tracey-anne McCartney

2. William Capel 1843-1938 - 3rd great-grandfather
Matilda Filby Capel 1866-1933
Daughter of William Capel
Sinney (Sinnie) (Simeon) Smith 1886-1954
Daughter of Matilda Filby Capel
Ellen Whitby 1914-2000
Daughter of Sinney (Sinnie) (Simeon) Smith
Christine Mary Wolstenholme 1950-
Daughter of Ellen Whitby
Tracey-anne McCartney

3. John Lovell 1797-1879 - 4th great-grandfather
Limpedy Limpetty Catherine Lovell 1825-1915
Daughter of John Lovell
Mignonette (Minnie) Whitby 1851-1940
Daughter of Limpedy Limpetty Caroline Catherine Lovell
George Whitby 1884-1947
Son of Mignonette (Minnie) Whitby
Ellen Whitby 1914-2000
Daughter of George Whitby
Christine Mary Wolstenholme 1950-
Daughter of Ellen Whitby
Tracey-anne McCartney

[PrawnCocktail]

You might find Sinnie is a corruption of the Roma name I have seen, Symphy.

Symphy Smith married Moses Loveridge  in Olney, Buckinghamshire. Their son Riley had a daughter called Symphia (1840, Kinver, Staffs). That's from my one-place study, not my personal tree. It may well be a corruption of Cynthia.

But one of my ancestors was Romany. Her granddaughter (my great-granny) always refused to talk about her family (and insisted on eloping to get married rather than have a traditional family wedding). When I told someone from the Romany Family History Society this, her response was that that was normal, owing to the discrimination and abuse faced by those with Romany connections. So it gets hidden. We only discovered it because some of the Durham county PRs gave not only parents but grandparents on baptisms.

[Tracey-anne]

Hi, 

Thank you for the info. Interesting.

I saw quite a few Cinnementa, etc, on Ancestry.co.uk, I guess that's where the name originates. A modern version for that day and age, perhaps?

One example:

Sinnimenti Cinnamentia (Sinnimenti) (Sennie) Sinnimenti (Sinnie)

this was taken from the wife of a 1st cousin - BIRTH 29 MAY 1891 • Farnborough, Kent, England

I've noticed many names repeated or variants of them.

Trace

[Darnity]

you might want to have a look at the Travelling People board here on Rootschat as there's going to be others out there potentially with more information about your Romany family.

Also take a look at the Romany and Traveller FHS website.

[Tracey-anne]

Hi Darnity,

I will, thank you.
It's been really helpful finding this site already.

Trace 

[Tracey-anne]

I've been doing more research...

I found some more connections on my family tree via Sinney Smith & George Whitby: Using records and other tree links on ancestry.co.uk

Elisha Rightdoer Lee 1740-1791
7th great-grandfather

Manfield Lee 1760-1834
Son of Elisha Rightdoer Lee

Duke (Gipnay) Lee 1785-1840
Son of Manfield Lee

Union (Unity) (Naomi) Lee 1797-1880
Daughter of Duke (Gipnay) Lee

Limpetty Caroline Lovell 1825-1915
Daughter of Union (Unity) (Naomi) Lee

Mignonette (Minnie) Whitby 1851-1940
Daughter of Limpetty Lovell

George Whitby 1884-1947
Son of Mignonette (Minnie) Whitby

Ellen Whitby 1914-2000
Daughter of George Whitby

Christine Mary Wolstenholme 1950-
Daughter of Ellen Whitby

Tracey-anne McCartney 1969 - (me)

Charlotte-anne McCartney (my daughter)