Catholic Birth/Baptism

[MattD30]

Hi I'm not sure where this should go so I'm posting it here but feel free to move it to a better board.

I've just discovered the baptism of my 2x great grandfather Florence Donovan in the records of Catholic Baptisms on Findmypast. I know it's him as it has both his parents named on it and I already know those names.

Florence and three of his siblings were baptised at the RC church of St Mary & St Michael in Stepney which is where their parents married in the same year.

The strange thing is that the date of birth on this record is before the date of birth I have on his civil registration birth certificate. According to that he was born on 13 September 1858 [the informant was his mother Catherine Donovan - nee Flynn]. Yet the baptism record says he was born 6 September 1858 and baptised 7 September 1858. It also tells us his parents were John Donovan and Catherine [Catherina] Flynn so I'm pretty sure it's him.

Could the date on the registered certificate be wrong?

I know that he had a sister named Mary Ann born in 1861 and one of the sponsors on her baptism was Jeremiah Ryan which is interesting as one of the witnesses at John Donovan and Catherine Flynn's marriage [which took place at the RC church of St Mary & St Michael in Feb 1858] was a Jeremiah Ryan. Was he related?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Matt

[Rosinish]

It's possible they left it past the 14 (or 21) days (I now can't remember) to register the birth & changed the date, this can be checked against the actual date it was registered?

This is quite a common occurrence 

Annie

[MattD30]

It's possible they left it past the 14 (or 21) days (I now can't remember) to register the birth & changed the date, this can be checked against the actual date it was registered?

This is quite a common occurrence 

Annie

Hi Annie

Many thanks for that.

Matt

[Blue70]

I have seen quite a few of these anomalies. The date of birth on the RC baptism is usually more reliable as in most cases the family would get the child baptised before registering the birth. As already mentioned, the family would want to avoid a late registration of the birth and they might give a different date of birth to avoid any complications.


Blue

[MattD30]

I have seen quite a few of these anomalies. The date of birth on the RC baptism is usually more reliable as in most cases the family would get the child baptised before registering the birth. As already mentioned, the family would want to avoid a late registration of the birth and they might give a different date of birth to avoid any complications.


Blue

Thanks for confirming this. It makes me wonder if I should check the Catholic registers for more members of the family.

Also these baptism registers have revealed some more children for John Donovan and Catherine Flynn whom I don't have any knowledge of from either the census or birth certificates.

Perhaps I should check the whole family in case I have more dates of birth wrong lol!

Matt

[Maiden Stone]

I know that he had a sister named Mary Ann born in 1861 and one of the sponsors on her baptism was Jeremiah Ryan which is interesting as one of the witnesses at John Donovan and Catherine Flynn's marriage [which took place at the RC church of St Mary & St Michael in Feb 1858] was a Jeremiah Ryan. Was he related?

Jeremiah Ryan may have been a relative or a friend. For relatives, I'd think first of brother-in-law (or future brother-in-law), half/step-brother or cousin. If the parents had moved from their homes in Ireland they may not have had relatives near where they lived. As he was a marriage witness and a baptism sponsor he was presumably someone close to John & Catherine Donovan. Have you looked for him on a census?
Who were Florence's baptism sponsors? The name reminds me of the character Florrie Knox in the novel and TV series  "The Irish R.M.".
I also have people with different birthdates in baptism register and birth register, including my grandmother. A family known to my granddad didn't manage to get information in birth registers to match baptism register for any of their children; different dates of birth were minor errors for them; one son had a change of first name between baptism and birth registration and another had 2 birthdays, 3 months apart, in different years as he was born in November, registered first by his mother and then by his father.   

[MattD30]

I know that he had a sister named Mary Ann born in 1861 and one of the sponsors on her baptism was Jeremiah Ryan which is interesting as one of the witnesses at John Donovan and Catherine Flynn's marriage [which took place at the RC church of St Mary & St Michael in Feb 1858] was a Jeremiah Ryan. Was he related?

Jeremiah Ryan may have been a relative or a friend. For relatives, I'd think first of brother-in-law (or future brother-in-law), half/step-brother or cousin. If the parents had moved from their homes in Ireland they may not have had relatives near where they lived. As he was a marriage witness and a baptism sponsor he was presumably someone close to John & Catherine Donovan. Have you looked for him on a census?
Who were Florence's baptism sponsors? The name reminds me of the character Florrie Knox in the novel and TV series  "The Irish R.M.".
I also have people with different birthdates in baptism register and birth register, including my grandmother. A family known to my granddad didn't manage to get information in birth registers to match baptism register for any of their children; different dates of birth were minor errors for them; one son had a change of first name between baptism and birth registration and another had 2 birthdays, 3 months apart, in different years as he was born in November, registered first by his mother and then by his father.   

Hi

Thanks for that info. I don't think I have been able to find Jeremiah on the census but it's worth another look. The other witness was Joanna Ryan who I presume was related to Jeremiah.

John was born in about 1837 or 1838 and his father Florence was apparently "deceased" by the time of the marriage. I'm currently trying to see if I can track John down as he may have been born in Ireland.

Matt

[MattD30]

I've just made an interesting discovery after looking at the census returns again.

In 1861 John and Catherine Donovan were living at 4 Goodmans Stile, in Whitechapel. He was apparently 23 and she was apparently 19 [their ages seem to vary by a year each census]. Both say they were born in Ireland whereas their first son Florence [transcribed as Lawrence] and daughter Mary are recorded as being born in London  [both were born in Whitechapel].

Also with them is a visitor "Catherine Ryan" aged 40 who is a widow and was also born in Ireland. It's possible she was related to Jeremiah Ryan.

Matt

[Rosinish]

Freebmd has 2 Jeremiah Ryan deaths Dec Qtr 1858  St Geo East (Near Whitechapel) although no age for either.

He may have been the husband of Catherine as she was a widow in 1861?

Annie