Author Topic: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry  (Read 499 times)

Offline olympus593

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« on: Thursday 14 January 21 15:46 GMT (UK) »
Hello everyone. I hope you are all keeping well.

I am a bit stuck on my family tree and would love some help. I have ancestry and Find My Past.
I am looking for several people that I have listed below; I have listed a bit of information below but do have more should you need it:

Mary Elizabeth Ball (b 1782).

Mary was baptised at St George in the East, Stepney in 1782. Her parents were Joseph and Sarah Ball. Her siblings were Sally Newsom Ball (b 1779 - d 1864), Elizabeth Cooke Ball (b 1791 - d 1868) and Joseph Ball (b abt. 1789 but cannot be sure on birth date) and Elizabeth Ashby Ball (b 1784 – 1787 but cannot be sure she is related). All of the children were born in the Stepney/Tower Hamlets area.

Mary married Thomas Hale, a butcher of Tower Street, London, in 1809.

In the 1861 census Mary is living at 2 Thurlow Terrace Clapham, Surrey with her extended family.
I am really looking for any census information on Mary Elizabeth pre 1861. I am also looking for a parish marriage record which hopefully will list Thomas Hale’s parents. I have been unable to find one.

The wedding of James Hillyer and Mary Ann Ball

Mary Ann Ball was born in abt. 1813 in Middlesex, London. She married James Hillyer (b 1805 - d 1875). Their first child, Arthur John Hillyer, was born in Combe Down, Bath in abt. 1831. The family lived in Combe Down, Bath for the rest of their lives.

The only information I am missing is the marriage. The marriage was likely in the Bristol, Bath or London area. If I could find this information it would open the next door. I can then find out who her parents were. I believe her father was the Joseph Ball mentioned above, the sibling of Sally Newsome Ball but have no proof.

Really struggled with finding the marriage. Hope someone has better luck than me!

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Hillyer - Combe Down, Bath, England.
Gibson - Foston on the Wolds, Yorkshire, England.
Ball - Longbridge Deverill, Wiltshire, England.

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 14 January 21 15:53 GMT (UK) »
The Ball/Hale marriage was by licence.
Witnesses look like Ford Hale and Elizabeth Cooke Ball

Marriages for that era wont show father's name.
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 14 January 21 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Wow I see Mary E Hale is still going strong in 1881 age 98!

I wonder if the daughter Elizabeth B (bn about 1817) or the son John W bn about 1824 will lead to her whereabouts in earlier years
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online tazzie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,132
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 14 January 21 16:03 GMT (UK) »
Mary Ann Ball.
A possible by banns.

 St James Clerkenwell 29 Dec 1828.
 James Hillyer to Mary Ann Ball bach and spinster both of the parish.
 Witness Joseph Ball
              Mary Ann Ball.

Tazzie
Liscoe -all
Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds
Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks.
Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London
 Rewallin/Underwood -Devon
 Casbolt-London/Cambridge
 Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds

 This information is Crown Copyright from
   www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 14 January 21 16:07 GMT (UK) »
Here is 1851

2 Thurlow Terrace
Mary Eliza Hale 62 widow fundholder bn London
Rose Francis 24  dtr   unm   dependent on fundholder bn Dalston
John W  26  son  unm     "
Eliza Betsy Hogarth widow 28  dtr    "
Sarah Berth ?  sister  widow 64
Thomas Leach 4 grandson
+ some visitors and servants



Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline olympus593

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 14 January 21 16:12 GMT (UK) »
The Ball/Hale marriage was by licence.
Witnesses look like Ford Hale and Elizabeth Cooke Ball

Marriages for that era wont show father's name.

Thank you. That is definitely them. Elizabeth being her sister and I believe Ford Hale was Thomas's Brother. Shame about the father's name not being on there, but as you say they just do not show up this early on. Interesting that the marriage was by License. I will have a think as to why this might have been.
Hillyer - Combe Down, Bath, England.
Gibson - Foston on the Wolds, Yorkshire, England.
Ball - Longbridge Deverill, Wiltshire, England.

Offline olympus593

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 14 January 21 16:31 GMT (UK) »
Here is 1851

2 Thurlow Terrace
Mary Eliza Hale 62 widow fundholder bn London
Rose Francis 24  dtr   unm   dependent on fundholder bn Dalston
John W  26  son  unm     "
Eliza Betsy Hogarth widow 28  dtr    "
Sarah Berth ?  sister  widow 64
Thomas Leach 4 grandson
+ some visitors and servants

Thank you so much. That is definitely them. The transcriber was not the best which makes finding this stuff tough going at times. Allot of the information they listed is pretty far out in terms of names and birth. None the less is is them. Thank you for finding it, I would not have found it. This is helping me open the next door.
Hillyer - Combe Down, Bath, England.
Gibson - Foston on the Wolds, Yorkshire, England.
Ball - Longbridge Deverill, Wiltshire, England.

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 14 January 21 17:16 GMT (UK) »
I see Rose was actually Rosina Ford Hale, she was baptised St Dunstan in the East, 1 March 1826
parents Thomas Hale and Mary ELizabeth Hale, he a butcher,  address  80 Tower Street.  Dob 3 Feb 1826.

(wouldnt be at all surprised if Thomas's dad wasnt called Ford!!)
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline olympus593

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Mary Elizabeth Ball and Mary Ann Ball Inquiry
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 14 January 21 17:29 GMT (UK) »
Mary Ann Ball.
A possible by banns.

 St James Clerkenwell 29 Dec 1828.
 James Hillyer to Mary Ann Ball bach and spinster both of the parish.
 Witness Joseph Ball
              Mary Ann Ball.

Tazzie

Thank you. I have this record, its the only one I have really found that is anything close. I have another for a 1832 marriage.

23 Dec 1832 Marriage Place, St James, Clerkenwell, Islington, England Spouse: Mary Ann Batt

This could be Mary Ann Ball rather than 'Batt.'

The only thing that does not ring true is the fact that the earliest birth for Mary Ann in the census is about 1813 and the latest 1819. That would make either of these marriages quite unlikely. Census do get the age wrong, it got her place of birth wrong too. Just unsure really. Let me know what you all think.

These two records are all we have found thus far!
Hillyer - Combe Down, Bath, England.
Gibson - Foston on the Wolds, Yorkshire, England.
Ball - Longbridge Deverill, Wiltshire, England.