Mary Ann Ball and Joseph Ball

[olympus593]

Hi everyone. Thank you for your replies.
 
I will provide some more information on what I know below.

Lily M – I will do some more research and reply later on, just want to look into this further. Thank you!

The legal papers are the will and documents associated with the death of Sarah ‘Sally’ Newsom Butt, née Ball (b 1779 - d 1864) that we hold. This is an extensive legal document that has been passed down through the family.

Sally Newsom Butt instructed that money be left to her sisters and brother (all of which I have listed in my initial post). Also her servant, Hannah Hunt (see census).

Sally also instructed that money be left to her nieces:

- Sarah Lee Hale (b 1812 – d 1893). A child of Mary Elizabeth Ball and Thomas Hale. Sarah was baptised at St Dunstan in the East, London in 1812. Sarah married Joseph Stone (b abt. 1810), a wine merchant, in 1840. A child of Mary Elizabeth Ball and Thomas Hale.

- Elizabeth Butt Hale (b 1816 – d 1892). A child of Mary Elizabeth Ball and Thomas Hale. Elizabeth was baptised at St Dunstan in the East, London in 1816. Elizabeth first married William Henry Haggart, a wine merchant, (b 1815 – d 1849) in 1840. Elizabeth then went on to marry Samuel Gillingham, a fellow widower, in 1853. Samuel was a grocer. In the 1891 Elizabeth is living at No. 4 Ridge Road, Hornsey, Middlesex with her daughter and servant. Her occupation is listed as ‘Independent means.’

- Mary Ball Hale (b 1818 - 1868). A child of Mary Elizabeth Ball and Thomas Hale. Mary was baptised at St Dunstan in the East, London in 1818. Mary married Thomas Leach, a grocer, in 1845.
 
- Rosina Ford Hale (b 1826 – d 1868). A child of Mary Elizabeth Ball and Thomas Hale. Rosina was baptised at St Dunstan in the East, London in 1826. Rosina married Edward Simper, involved in cheese, in 1851.

- Mary Ann Hillyer and James Hillyer of the Jew’s Burial Ground, Combe Down, Bath. James marks his name with a cross.

Money was also left to Warren Stormes Hale. The brother of Thomas Hale who married her sister Mary Elizabeth Ball. Warren Stormes Hale was the Lord Mayor of London!

I have researched the Hillyer’s extensively and this is my relatives. They lived there for some 20-30 years as illustrated by Wivenhoe’s post. I know all there is to know about them

It is just a case of finding Mary Ann Hillyer’s birth and marriage! As well as the information on her parents.

I will have a look over what else I know and get back to you all later!

Thanks everyone.

[olympus593]

I hope someone can read this will (it’s with Find My Past) and make more sense of it than I can.

It’s dated 1823 but has a note on the side saying that the executor, Thomas Hale, died in 1845.  And does that note say that he was an heir?

Thank you.

I am now able to link several things together.

Signature on marriage

Lily, you mention the signatures being similar between Mary Ann Ball (Stone) on the 1810 entry and her daughter’s 1828 entry. I see what you mean, thank you. I think this is my best shot!

I do have another marriage record for a James Hillyer and Mary Ann Ball at St James, Clerkenwell, England for the 23rd of December 1832. However it has been crossed out in the register. Just not sure what to make of that. It isn’t that important to be honest.

Thomas Edward Ball (b 1786)

I have found the baptism record for Thomas Edward Ball. This has similarities to what I believe is Joseph’s baptism i.e. baptised at St Mary’s, Whitechapel and parents Joseph and Sarah’s address listed as Lambeth Street, Tower Hamlets.

I did find a record for a Thomas Edward Ball who apprenticed as a Cartman to James Robinson. His father is listed on apprenticeship application as ‘Joseph Ball a Cartman of Church Lane, Whitechapel’.

In the Bank of England will you mentioned, it lists Joseph Ball’s sons as Joseph Ball and Thomas Edward Ball who was residing near Sidney, New South Wales. 

Possible other siblings of Joseph Ball

Charlotte Augusta Matilda Ball was baptised at St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney, Tower Hamlets in 1792. Parents Joseph and Sarah’s address listed as M.E.O.T.

Elizabeth Ashby Ball (b 1784 – 1787). Elizabeth was baptised at St Mary, Whitechapel, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, in 1784. Parents Joseph and Sarah’s address listed as Lambeth Street, Tower Hamlets.

So this could all tie in.

Bank of England Will for Joseph Ball snr of White Horse Lane, Stepney dated 1823.

This is a fascinating document, thank you for finding it. I have not seen it before.
This document has several pieces of information which match who we are looking for.
In the side margin we find an update on Thomas Hale. ‘Thomas Hale an heir died 1845 leaving Mary’.

We know that Thomas Hale, the butcher of Tower Street, died in 1845 and was survived by his wife Mary. He was buried at St Dunstan in the East, City of London, England in May 1845. His birth on the entry was estimated at 1787 and his address was listed as Tower Street.

We also know that Mary Elizabeth Ball (b 1782 – d 1882) married Thomas Hale (b 1787 – d 1845), a butcher of Tower Street, London, in 1809. The marriage was by license and the witnesses were Ford Hale (b 1782 - 1861) and Elizabeth Cooke Ball.

If you look at the Hale Genealogy website for Warren Stormes Hale you will see that Thomas Hale and Ford Hale are both listed as his brothers. The Hale’s come from the villages of Benington and Therfield in Hertfordshire.

Summarising the Bank of England Will

It would seem that Joseph Ball was a wealthy man by the large amount of money he left. We know that Joseph Ball was an excise officer, is it possible that he later worked as what I presume is a Cartman?

I am confident that this Bank of England Will is that of my relative Joseph Ball. This is mainly because of the information on his son Joseph and wife Mary Ann, granddaughter Mary Ann and also the information on Thomas Hale and his wife Mary. I just think it’s too much of a coincidence for these to all align.

Further information on Joseph Ball Snr

I believe Joseph married Sarah Lee at St. Katherine by the Tower, Tower Hamlets, England in 1773. The reason for this as the name ‘Sarah Lee’ was passed on down through his children and grandchildren. Again this is my best shot.

Wider points on the Wills

In the will I have for Sally Newsom Butt. It clearly instructs that money should be left to the women (with the exception of her brother Joseph), not their husbands. I thought this was a bit unusual for the 1800s. Regardless, James Hillyer signed his ‘x’ mark so we assume they received the money.
In the Bank of England Will for Joseph Ball snr it makes the point that Mary Ann Ball (Hillyer) should receive money up until she 21 or if she remains unmarried (or something along those lines).

I do not know why Mary Ann Ball (Hillyer) and her husband James ended up living at the Jew’s Burial Ground, Combe Down. The building they lived in with their large family was tiny, the living conditions were appalling. The Jew’s Burial Ground was owned by a quarryman; James worked and in the local quarry and died there in a tragic accident. 

I will need to research Joseph Ball jnr and his wife Mary Ann Ball (Stone) further. I will come back with any theories or information I find in the hope someone else reading this may be able to help.
Look forward to hearing from you all.

[mckha489]

I think that note about Thomas Hale says he was Ext^r
Buried 19 May 1845.  It doesn’t say he was an heir.
I think the hieroglyphics relate to further arrangements. But what arrangements?, that is frustrating.

Did you notice Joseph was also of Deverill Longridge, Full version of this will would be worth acquiring wouldn’t it.  This is just the extract relating to the investments.

As I understand it the £10 per annum for Mary Ann is for her whole life, and for her own separate use, free from the control of any husband  .
It also says while she is underage that she should be entirely under the control or protection of his trustees and if her parents don’t allow that, then the money must accumulate until she is of age.

Makes you think he didn’t trust his son.

[olympus593]

I think that note about Thomas Hale says he was Ext^r
Buried 19 May 1845.  It doesn’t say he was an heir.
I think the hieroglyphics relate to further arrangements. But what arrangements?, that is frustrating.

Did you notice Joseph was also of Deverill Longridge, Full version of this will would be worth acquiring wouldn’t it.  This is just the extract relating to the investments.

As I understand it the £10 per annum for Mary Ann is for her whole life, and for her own separate use, free from the control of any husband  .
It also says while she is underage that she should be entirely under the control or protection of his trustees and if her parents don’t allow that, then the money must accumulate until she is of age.

Makes you think he didn’t trust his son.

I think you are right about the Executor Thomas Hale rather than heir. I am not sure how that affects things.

I am not sure how I would go about ordering the full version of the will if there is one.

I just noticed the Deverill Longbridge part. That's a new one to me. I have just had a quick look and found a newspaper article on Find My Past for the October 1823 auction of a 'Ellegant residence for a gented family' that was late in the occupation of Joseph Ball of Deverill Longbridge. It lists a Mr Cruze as a point of contact for more information, he was not the auctioneer.

I notice a Jeremiah Cruz(s)e is listed in the Bank of England Will.

All new information to me, I will have to look into this further. If anyone has any more information, as always, just post a reply. All greatly appreciated. 

[mckha489]

If Mary Ann was b abt 1813 then she was only 15 in 1828. And the terms of the will were to have the money she had to be under the control of the executors until she was 21 or married.
I would have thought one at least of the executors would have had to be a witness at the marriage. 

[wivenhoe]

The Will being discussed here......am I able to access it online.....somewhere?

[mckha489]

The Will being discussed here......am I able to access it online.....somewhere?

It’s a will extract. On FindMyPast

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBOR%2FBOE%2F092%2F0157&parentid=GBOR%2FBOE%2F702032790%2F1

[wivenhoe]

There are two documents being discussed here -

* Will and documents associated with the death of Sarah ‘Sally’ Newsom Butt, née Ball (b 1779 - d 1864) that we hold.

This is not accessible to public, being document held by your family?

* Will on Find my Past, written 1823, for Joseph BALL, grandfather of Mary Ann BALL.

When did this Joseph BALL die?

From the documents relating to estate of Sarah Newsom BUTT ..........

When was this document written?

Can you please give the exact name and description of the women named, and where/when the word niece appears.

Can you please use the same order in which the names appear.

What did each woman receive as benefit....same amounts ?....different amounts?


"... James Hillyer signed his ‘x’ mark so we assume they received the money."

When did he sign his mark........against what....what does his mark seen on the document indicate?

What do you see regarding the similar distribution of inheritance for the other beneficiaries...ie a mark or signature of heir or other person?

[mckha489]

* Will on Find my Past, written 1823, for Joseph BALL, grandfather of Mary Ann BALL.

When did this Joseph BALL die?

His death notice is in newspaper.

Died 20th Inst at Deverell (sic)  near Warminster . Age 76

28 April 1823 - Salisbury and Winchester Journal - Salisbury,


When did his wife die? There is a Mrs Ball mentioned in Deverill Longbridge in assoc with Mr Cruse and renting a property. But not (as far as I can tell) the same one  that Joseph himself owned and is auctioned later.


Here.   08 September 1823 - Salisbury and Winchester Journal - Salisbury, Wiltshire, England