(canonbie)whos the mummy ??? little wilson nixon cunlough cunlos cunliffe murray

[adriandenney]

whos the mummy little wilson nixon cunlough cunlos cunliffe murray
really struggling to get who the mother is or if infact she isnt two women but one

Robert Little born canonbie  born 21/3/1831  (census 1861 blacksmith)

on scotlands people there is a record  (looks like a list that someones made later than the date of event as others do)
little .... robert son of robert little + elizabeth Nixon born 21 march 1831

(doesnt say hes illegitimate which he is or the listings below of possible siblings again all illegitimate)

on scottish indexes  there is a kirk session listed  as

elisabeth cunlough  with Robert Little  1831

the transcript Page 353
Canonbie Kirk 10th July 1831 P[ost] P[reces] Sed[erun]t Minister & Elders
Elisabeth Cunlough’s Confession
Compeared Elisabeth Cunlough, who being solemnly exhorted to be ingenuous and
interrogated deposes that Robert Little Blacksmith Priorhill is the father of a Child
which she brought forth on the 21st March last. She was exhorted and dismissed.

Canonbie Kirk 7th August 1831 P[ost] P[reces] Sed[erun]t Minister & Elders
Robert Little’s Confession
A Line of Acknowledgement was received from Robert Little that he is the father of
Elisabeth Cunloughs Child.

so with this im drawn more to the kirk session which is from the time rather than the scotlands people which seems to be from a much later date

problem

i cant find a birth for elizabeth NIXON  i can find her on every census  and on her death cert she has mother as mary wilson . on every census she states born canonbie  and working on age is either 1808 or 1809

eliasabeth conlough  or cunliffe or cunlos  the only thing close to this is a record on scotlands people and a kirk sessions listing of

1806
Canonby Kirk, Dec[embe]r 14th
Marg[are]t Murray Sum[mo]n[e]d
E[odem] D[ie] The Off[ice]r was appointed to Sum[mo]n Marg[are]t Murray in
Glebefield, before the Sess[ion] nixt Lords day, upon a flagrant report, that she was far
advanced in pregnancy. Closed with prayer.
Canonby Kirk, Dec[embe]r 28th P[ost] P[reces] Sed[erun]t Mins[te]r & Elders.
The Off[ice]r reported that he had Sum[mone]d Marg[are]t Murray, who being
call[e]d, compeared not, the off[ice]r was appointed to Sum[mo]n her pro 2do nixt
Lords day.
Canonby Manse Jan[ua]ry 4th [1807] P[ost] P[reces] Sed[erun]t Mins[te]r & Elders.
Marg[are]t Murrays Confession
Compeared Marg[are]t Murray, who Accused David Cunlos now residing at Clayton in
Lancashire as the Father of her child, being farther Interrogated, said that she had
made her case known to him, & that she had 2 Letters from him of his acquiescence of
her charge, she was Sum[mo]n[e]d apud acta to the Presbitry.

but after this there is no further trace for this person until robert little turnes up
this is where it gets complicated

margaret murray mother of elisabeth cunlos (cunliffe or cunlough) is also the mother of Mary Wilson
mother of elizabeth nixon (but no birth record)

so my reconing is

 is it possable  that elisabeth cunlough is elizabeth nixon  and not her niece as  in my tree

if so why other than marriage (which i cant find) would or could a woman change her surname

1831 birth robert little illegitimate (elisabeth Cunlough )
1838 birth david farish illegitimate  (elizabeth nixon)

is there any other way to see the page for 1831 canonbie other than scotlands people ( the original entry that someones made the list from )

[MonicaL]

Welcome to RootsChat, Adrian 

Have you considered this 1841 census entry?:

Mary Wilson 45 agr lab...this entry for her? www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT12-JL4
Eliz Nixon 35 agr lab
Robert Little 10
George Farrage 7...have you seen the original? Thinking surname should be Farish
Devina Farrage 3...showing as female on a/try transcript. Could this be David Farish? There is a possible death for her, Devena Farish died in 1845, aged 7.
Margt Beattie 2weeks maybe this entry www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT1L-K3P

Address: Byreburnfoot, Canonbie

The 1841 census as you know is limited in terms of info and relationships within the households are not normally included.

Have you followed through Robert Little Jnr in the censuses? If he married, you could check his reg to see what names he gave for his parents.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Don't know if Elizabeth Nixon ever married...but she certainly had a numbe of children.

I think this is her in 1851:

John McKiton 28 blacksmith pauper b. Canonbie
Elizabeth Nixon 40 lodger farm lab. b. Canonbie
Margaret Beattie 10 lodger b. Canonbie
Ann Irvine 7 lodger b. Canonbie
William Mcglasson 1 lodger b. Canonbie maybe this one www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQW-PJ5

Address: Crofthead, Canonbie

And 1861:

William Beattie 76 pauper b. Canonbie
Elizabeth Nixon 53 boarder sick nurse b. Canonbie
William Mcglasson 11 boarder b. Canonbie

Address: Upper Thorniewhats, Canonbie

Monica

[MonicaL]

With illigitimate births all around, gets confusing doesn't it.

Leaving aside the surname of Wilson for Elizabeth Nixon's mother, Mary, is this her death reg entry?

Mary MURRAY
63
Mother's maiden name MURRAY
1856
814/ 17
Canonbie

Monica

[MonicaL]

Don't know if you have a subs to Ancestry. There is a family tree for this line which includes a number of original certificates. They have the image of Elizabeth Nixon's death reg giving her father as Joseph Nixon and mother Mary Wilson. Not surprisingly, the source of the surname Nixon for this Elizabeth.

www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/165396041/person/252149985132/facts

Mary Murray/Wilson looks to have a number of illegitimate children.

The only child that I can't find anything for is Betty Cunliffe but you have her details both from the OPR entry and the Kirk Session Minutes which are failry explanatory.

I think the only confusion is the use of Cunliffe (in a variant) for the birth of Robert Little in 1831 but, in my opinioin, you have a lot of other material and sources which give his mother as Elizabeth Nixon, daughter of Mary Wilson, granddaughter of Margaret Murray.

Monica

[adriandenney]

Hi Monica
Thank you for your replies .
The trees on ancestry are mine and my 8th cousins.  We both did dna. But we don’t match  ! On paper we do !  She come from Elizabeth Nixon’s line.  I come from Mary Wilson’s son William little  ( so they should be half brother and sister)
What we are both puzzled with is who is Elizabeth Nixon 1809 could she be infact her own auntie bettie cunliffe ( this would move us further away as cousins on dna so wouldn’t show a match) the hole in our research is the Robert littles birth entry. As Scotlandpeoples entry is quite clearly someone’s hand written list and not the original parish register.  The Kirk sessions with the different surname for Robert littles mother is the original from 1831.  Robert little is only on one census 1841 in the same house hold as Elizabeth Nixon but as you pointed out there is no relationships within the household given.  He may even just be a boarder by 1851 he’s living with the littles. 

What we are trying to find out is who his mother is so that may cast light on who Elizabeth Nixon is. 

Problem with Elizabeth Nixon on every census she states she’s from canonbie.  But there is no Kirk entry for her or Scotland’s people.   If she is infact Mary Wilson/Murray’s first illegitimate child ( which she had 10) there is no Kirk sessions with Mary Wilson   ( she’s in front of the Kirk sessions  every two or three years with all her other children even the one she says she conceived while out for a walk!!!!!)

Elizabeth cunliffe   was born 1807.(illegitimate) To Mary Wilson’s mother Margaret Murray of glebefield.  It other than a birth/ baptism entry she disappears.   

So does Elizabeth cunliffe ( cunlough) become Elizabeth Nixon ( who we can’t find a birth for )
The Kirk elders would know who these women were so on the Robert littles Kirk sessions they would have a woman the village knew as cunliffe/ cunlough.   
Then a few years later they recognise a woman called Elizabeth Nixon at another Kirk sessions. 

So is this the same person. Is there a marriage we have missed that would make this woman’s surname change ( if she is the same woman). 

Did Robert littles mother die and Mary Wilson and Elizabeth Nixon take him in to feed him ( considering Mary Wilson would have had the possibility of ten of her own children in the house ).

I know it’s all very confusing.  And anyone doing Robert littles line  will hit this problem too. 
1) a Kirk session from 1831 with one name on it
2) a Scotland’s people’s record which clearly is some ones list of names which must have been written well after 1831
3) would there be a canonbie registry from 1831 to show what was entered. ?

[MonicaL]

What records exist I would suggest you have already found  Canonbie were hot on their Kirk Sessions too which is why you have the references you have.

What original documents remain have been imaged and made available on SP I believe. Unfortunately, there is no other access to these original documents I believe.  Non-old parish registers have been transcribed, see www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/world-records/full-list-of-united-kingdom-records/life-events-bmds/scotland-non-old-parish-registers-vital-records-1647-1875  However, your lines seem to fall within the records of the established Church of Scotland given the amount of records you have found on the registers.

For the OPRs, the list you have found for 1831, sounds like a catch up by a parish clerk or minister perhaps? I would suggest that is may well be the only record you may find for Robert's birth/christening in 1831 in these registers.

It is a pity that Robert Little moved to England in respect of registrations. His marriage (if post 1855) or his death cert details would have helped you here.

What about names he used for his children? Any clues from those?

Monica

[Milliepede]

( she’s in front of the Kirk sessions  every two or three years with all her other children even the one she says she conceived while out for a walk!!!!!)

Forgive me chipping in but that bit made me chuckle after a trying day so thank you 

[walterc]

The local newspaper started in 1848 and has been partially indexed.  It might be worth a look:

https://www.langholmarchive.org.uk

Good luck

WalterC