Author Topic: HO8 Prison records query  (Read 483 times)

Offline Davedrave

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HO8 Prison records query
« on: Thursday 21 January 21 20:51 GMT (UK) »
I have access to the National Archives HO8 series of prison records on FindMyPast and have just a couple of queries. Is it possible to browse these records in the same way that parish registers can be browsed on FindMyPast? I don’t seem to be able to do it (using iPad). Also, does anyone know what the number in the leftmost column, “No. on S.B.” means?

I’m looking at the records of William Sayers, which are a bit confusing because for most of the records he is said to be 62 (and FindMyPast computes his d.o.b. as 1780). However, he is certainly the same individual who is also 48 in some of the (I’m pretty sure later) records, which have a different “No. on S.B.” (and for these records his d.o.b. is 1794 on FindMyPast). His baptism was certainly in 1793. He was incarcerated along with his younger brother John, who was pardoned a bit earlier than William.

They began their imprisonment on “Leviathan” in 1842 and were later transferred to “Stirling Castle”. I know that quite some while ago helpers on Rootschat gave me a date for that transfer, but I can’t seem to find the original document.

Dave :)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

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Re: HO8 Prison records query
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 21 January 21 22:25 GMT (UK) »
Also, does anyone know what the number in the leftmost column, “No. on S.B.” means?

'Number on Ship's Books' (it's his ID number for that particular hulk).

ADDED 1
I don't have any trouble browsing these records, but I don't use an iPad.

ADDED 2
The transfer to 'Stirling Castle' was in 1847. If you search the Crime, Prisons & Punishment database for William Sayers in 1847, limiting the search to series HO13 (which is Correspondence and Warrants), you should find the record.

Offline Davedrave

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Re: HO8 Prison records query
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 January 21 08:54 GMT (UK) »
Also, does anyone know what the number in the leftmost column, “No. on S.B.” means?

'Number on Ship's Books' (it's his ID number for that particular hulk).

ADDED 1
I don't have any trouble browsing these records, but I don't use an iPad.

ADDED 2
The transfer to 'Stirling Castle' was in 1847. If you search the Crime, Prisons & Punishment database for William Sayers in 1847, limiting the search to series HO13 (which is Correspondence and Warrants), you should find the record.

Many thanks for your help, Bookbox. I think that using iPad is probably my issue. Thank you for finding his transfer too. I had thought that “No. on S.B.” was some sort of prisoner I.D. Oddly, I’m pretty sure that William Sayers and another prisoner have the same number in one of the records, but I’ll check again, since a visit to the optician is in the offing.

Dave :)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

Offline Davedrave

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Re: HO8 Prison records query
« Reply #3 on: Friday 22 January 21 20:22 GMT (UK) »
I have now accessed the records on my laptop and it is certainly easier than on iPad, but still not exactly straightforward. As far as I can seen the 1847 document in H013 is the pardon of William Sayers who was at the time on “Stirling Castle”. However, to find when he was transferred from “Leviathan” to “Stirling Castle” is anything but straightforward on Findmypast because in their indexing of HO8 all records carry the date of conviction, which is obviously the same in all of the documents I’m interested in, rather than the year of the particular record. To compound matters these records aren’t listed in volume order, so that finding the date when he was moved is going to take some time. At least I’ve found a record of “Stirling Castle” at Devonport, so I don’t need to look into that piece.

Dave :)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight


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Re: HO8 Prison records query
« Reply #4 on: Friday 22 January 21 22:35 GMT (UK) »
Sorry to have misled you over the 1847 record.

Leviathan was used only up to 1844 ...
https://www.prisonhistory.org/prison/leviathan/

... so maybe that is the year he was transferred to Stirling Castle?

Offline Davedrave

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Re: HO8 Prison records query
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 23 January 21 10:25 GMT (UK) »
Sorry to have misled you over the 1847 record.

Leviathan was used only up to 1844 ...
https://www.prisonhistory.org/prison/leviathan/

... so maybe that is the year he was transferred to Stirling Castle?

Thanks. This is useful because once I’ve sorted out the order of the volumes in the FindMyPast indexing I’ll have a look at the records relating to that year, which it very much sounds from your link will be the time of transfer.

Dave :)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

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Re: HO8 Prison records query
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 23 January 21 10:45 GMT (UK) »
once I’ve sorted out the order of the volumes in the FindMyPast indexing I’ll have a look at the records relating to that year, which it very much sounds from your link will be the time of transfer.

It may help you to use the TNA catalogue in conjunction with FindMyPast.

These are the relevant piece numbers for Stirling Castle between 1844 and 1847 (HO8/79-94, in date order)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_ep=stirling+castle&_cr=HO+8&_dss=range&_sd=1844&_ed=1847&_ro=any&_st=adv

Each piece covers several hulks. The full catalogue entry for each piece gives the page-range for each hulk within it.

When searching on FindMyPast, you can enter the piece number (e.g. 79) as well as the series (HO8). You can then tell from the page-number given on the image on FindMyPast which hulk you are looking at, without having to browse back to the start of each register.

Offline Davedrave

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Re: HO8 Prison records query
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 23 January 21 11:43 GMT (UK) »
once I’ve sorted out the order of the volumes in the FindMyPast indexing I’ll have a look at the records relating to that year, which it very much sounds from your link will be the time of transfer.

It may help you to use the TNA catalogue in conjunction with FindMyPast.

These are the relevant piece numbers for Stirling Castle between 1844 and 1847 (HO8/79-94, in date order)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_ep=stirling+castle&_cr=HO+8&_dss=range&_sd=1844&_ed=1847&_ro=any&_st=adv

Each piece covers several hulks. The full catalogue entry for each piece gives the page-range for each hulk within it.

When searching on FindMyPast, you can enter the piece number (e.g. 79) as well as the series (HO8). You can then tell from the page-number given on the image on FindMyPast which hulk you are looking at, without having to browse back to the start of each register.

Many thanks, Bookbox, this is really helpful and should save me a good deal of effort.

Dave :)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight