Author Topic: Wrong ages and profession deliberately given on embarkation for Australia Why?  (Read 896 times)

Offline transparu

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I'm not sure WHERE to make this post, so here goes!

I have a couple in my family, William and Charlotte Yates, who migrated from England to Australia in 1875 aboard the Great Britain on its last voyage to Melbourne departing August 26, and arriving in Melbourne on 20, October 1875.  William had married Charlotte Lakin on 14 August 1875 in Leicester.
William was born on late 1851 or early 1852 and Charlotte in 1856 in Leicester, England according to Census and other records. So at the time of their marriage, William was 24 and Charlotte 19 years of age. William's occupation was boot and shoe riveter, a profession shared with his grandfather. Charlotte was a worsted spinner. Both thus filled roles in two common occupations in Leicester at the period and there was nothing in the family histories to suggest either had significant financial resources, though they apparently paid their own passage to Australia. For several generations their families had been in similar employment.
When they embarked for Australia on board the Great Britain William and Charlotte gave their ages as 35 and 32 respectively (i.e. 11 and 13 years older than they actually were) and William's occupation as grocer.
 
My questions are two:
why this couple might have given these exaggerated ages and
why William might have claimed to be a grocer. (It appears that in later years the family knew how old William was – certainly they did before he died in 1898, but it was only on her death in 1939 that family came to realise that Charlotte was 13 years younger than she claimed!)
Within 2-4 years of arriving in Australia William had been in partnership in at least two Boot and Shoe manufacturing businesses and shortly thereafter built a large factory for his own business in the northern suburbs of Melbourne.  (The factory still exists, is National Trust Listed and is apparently the only remaining factory of its type in Melbourne.)  The boot and shoe industry in Melbourne was growing very rapidly at the time and the positions advertised available were numerous. One might have thought it would be of advantage to claim a trade useful in the industry in Australia.
I'd be interested in any comments on my questions.

Thanks folks!
Yates (Tamworth, Staffs), Yates (Leicester), Probert (London, Westminster, Bath), Argles, Robinson (London, Westminster), Jessop (Westmeath)

Offline majm

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Re: Wrong ages and profession deliberately given on embarkation for Australia Why?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 22 January 21 05:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I am only looking at the online index provided by PROV which has

Mrs C YATES aged 32 (Unassisted Inwards Passengers, Fiche # 337, page of list 4)
Wm YATES aged 35, (Unassisted etc ... Fiche 338, page 3).

Did the couple have any children born in Victoria?  The Vic BDM birth registrations are usually full of detailed information, including the then ages of the parents of the baby being registered.

ADD
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/passenger-records-and-immigration/unassisted-passenger-lists (these include 1875)

https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/passenger-records-and-immigration/assisted-passenger-lists   (these seem to stop at 1871)


JM
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Offline Ruskie

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Re: Wrong ages and profession deliberately given on embarkation for Australia Why?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 January 21 05:25 GMT (UK) »
I think people sometimes intentionally fibbed, perhaps reducing their age to appear more employable, and altering occupation to tally with what was needed in the colonies at that time.

This doesn’t seem to be the case for your William and Charlotte.

It sounds like it could be an error. Have you looked at the original shipping record? Those that I have seen have lists of names, place of origin, occupation etc, which could easily be attributed to the wrong name, or incorrectly transcribed at a later date.

Another explanation may be that this is a different couple. It is possible there are other William and Charlotte Yeats/Yates.

Offline sparrett

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Re: Wrong ages and profession deliberately given on embarkation for Australia Why?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 22 January 21 05:41 GMT (UK) »
When I look at the original document you have cited, I see not Wm (abbreviated William) but Mr.
That is YATES Mr.

Further up the same page where a man's given name is William, it is written fully, William.

When I look over the page at the female YATES, I see YATES C. Mrs.

I might query they are your people.

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline majm

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The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline transparu

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Re: Wrong ages and profession deliberately given on embarkation for Australia Why?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 22 January 21 06:11 GMT (UK) »
Similar question https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=727835.0

JM

OUCH!!
I was SURE I had posted a similar question but could not find it when I looked.  Thanks JM!  This DOES demonstrate something attributes of my age-related development! I'll now again digest the information.

sparrett, That I already knew the year from family recollections, that the couple married in Leicester in August 1875 and that independent source(s) referred to the ship and the arrival year led me to conclude these were "mine". This was the Great Britain's final visit to Melbourne.

Again, your responses are appreciated folks - even if my age is beginning to show.



Yates (Tamworth, Staffs), Yates (Leicester), Probert (London, Westminster, Bath), Argles, Robinson (London, Westminster), Jessop (Westmeath)

Offline sparrett

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Re: Wrong ages and profession deliberately given on embarkation for Australia Why?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 22 January 21 06:46 GMT (UK) »
The death certificate of your William YATES will give the length of time in the Australian Colonies as part of the information asked for in completing it.

Do you have this document?

Is there a source you have that gives the year of the arrival of the couple?
Other than the Great Britain manifest.
Can you describe them?

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

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Re: Wrong ages and profession deliberately given on embarkation for Australia Why?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 22 January 21 06:56 GMT (UK) »
Victoria and its Metropolis – Past and Present Published 1888, Melbourne.  Two Volumes.

William YATES, Clifton Hill, arrived in Victoria by the s.s. Great Britain in 1875, and settled in Collingwood, where about ten years ago he commenced a boot and shoe manufacturing business on his own account, and about three years since removed to his present premises in Page Street, Clifton Hill, where he is now doing business.  Mr Yates is Married.

I will post on the other thread as well.  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=727835.0
I understand the author collected submissions from persons of interest.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline transparu

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Re: Wrong ages and profession deliberately given on embarkation for Australia Why?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 22 January 21 07:27 GMT (UK) »
Victoria and its Metropolis – Past and Present Published 1888, Melbourne.  Two Volumes.

William YATES, Clifton Hill, arrived in Victoria by the s.s. Great Britain in 1875, and settled in Collingwood, where about ten years ago he commenced a boot and shoe manufacturing business on his own account, and about three years since removed to his present premises in Page Street, Clifton Hill, where he is now doing business.  Mr Yates is Married.

I will post on the other thread as well.  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=727835.0

Thanks JM.  Yes, I actually have the volume!  It is rather large.

I understand the author collected submissions from persons of interest.

JM
Yates (Tamworth, Staffs), Yates (Leicester), Probert (London, Westminster, Bath), Argles, Robinson (London, Westminster), Jessop (Westmeath)