Author Topic: What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.  (Read 327 times)

Offline LizzieW

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What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.
« on: Monday 25 January 21 16:13 GMT (UK) »
Still on the track of my g.grandfather I have now had 4 DNA matches, 3 of which all lead to the same man, 'I' born 1717 in London (his father born 1681 in Portugal).    The 4th one 'D' I'm awaiting pdf birth certificates to see if he's also descended from the same 'I', or a different ancestor in the same family.

'D' is actually 52 years younger than me but his father was born the same year as me.  I don't know if that makes any difference to the relationship, there's sort of a generation missing, I have grandchildren the same age and older than 'D'.

By my reckoning, 'D' being my 2nd cousin twice removed, makes his father 'L' my 2nd cousin once removed, his grandfather 'I' my 2nd cousin, his g.grandmother 'R' my 1st cousin once removed, his 2 x g.grandmother 'R' my g.grandmother or one of her siblings, his 3 x g.grandfather 'J' my 2 x g.grandfather or one of his siblings.

Re: his 2 x g.grandmother 'R' my g.grandmother or one of her siblings

As I know all my g.grandmothers, I think this means that my missing g.grandfather could be one of 'R's siblings.

Have I got this correct?

Unfortunately, there is only one of the correct age and I've found him with a wife and family through the years my g.grandfather was living in Hull with my g.gran so they are obviously not the same man.

It's so frustrating, so close yet so far.  I still think my g.grandfather was illegitimate, possibly brought up by a different family and given the name he used in adulthood.  If only I could get a match with any half siblings he might have had.

Offline Mike in Cumbria

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Re: What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 25 January 21 16:31 GMT (UK) »
I'm trying to draw this as a tree but find it confusing. Have you drawn a potential tree?
In answer to the generation question though - no, the age difference doesn't affect the relationships and is quite normal. If one branch of the family has their children at about 21 years of age, say, and another has theirs at 31, the mis-match of ages is soon achieved. Makes no difference to the relationship though . Some people end up with uncles or aunts younger than themselves.
"No vegetable grows in vain.."

Offline LizzieW

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Re: What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 25 January 21 17:39 GMT (UK) »
I've tried to reply via my laptop but for some reason there seems to be a problem.  I'll try again later. Too long to type in my phone and add a short tree.


Offline LizzieW

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Re: What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 25 January 21 18:22 GMT (UK) »
I have a tree on my laptop which I have constructed from research and information given to me by the other 3 DNA matches, which is why I know they all come from the same ancestor.
I can't give the full names of 'D' born 1993 or his father 'L' born 1941 as they are both alive, and if I give 'D's grandfathers name then anyone could work out who the living people are.  Suffice to say that D gave me his father and grandfather's names which, knowing 'D's year of birth which he's put on the DNA website we have both used (not Ancestry) I had already worked out who his father and grandfather were by finding out his mother's surname, her marriage etc. and working backwards.  So from the same method I know his paternal g.grandparents too.  I'm not interested in his maternal ancestors as I can't find any connection to them.  Having got as far as his g.grandparents, I recognised his g.grandmother's name from the tree I'd already constructed.  The only problem I have is that there are 3 women of the right age with the same name in the tree, so I've had to send off for her marriage certificate.  Naturally, Ancestry has trees with all the women mixed up!!

I've drawn a rough tree, hope it helps. :)

Offline LizzieW

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Re: What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.
« Reply #4 on: Monday 25 January 21 18:24 GMT (UK) »
I'm not sure how the mother of my 1st cousin once removed would be my g.grandmother but I was looking at a table that people on here often use.  A different table suggests the parent of my 1st cousin once removed would be a great aunt or uncle which makes more sense.

Offline LizzieW

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Re: What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 25 January 21 18:52 GMT (UK) »
Having checked on my Legacy tree looking at my maternal ancestors who I am totally sure about,  my g.grandmother is the parent of not only my gran, but also my g.aunts and uncles (gran's siblings).  Their children would be my first cousins once removed and their childlren my 2nd cousins.

So working backwards in my puzzle family,  from my 1st cousin once removed 'R' (born 1882) to her mother 'R' (1844) my g.aunt, that would mean that her parents, or their siblings would be my g.grandparents. 

This brings me very neatly (perhaps too neatly) to an 1871 census I found many, many years ago well before DNA tests which has an elderly lady living with her son and daughter plus someone the same age as the daughter who has the surname of my mysterious g.grandfather and is on the census as "friend".   At the time, I put two and two together and made 5, theorising that the daughter of the family had had a relationship with her friend's brother (who incidentally has the same name as my g.grandfather) and produced g.grandfather.  Now all these years later and DNA matches, it seems even if that theory is wrong, the family is the right one.  ::)

Offline JohnDoe2020

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Re: What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 30 January 21 16:10 GMT (UK) »
Good Morning. I am attaching a simple cousin tree with simple cm average matches as a percentage. Go to DNA Painter and use the CM tool which will provide the probability of the relationship. There will be numerous options and the generational relationship of the parties is a big influence on the amount of matching CM. There are of course other considerations such a full or half relative, pedigree collapse and more.

Good luck

Offline LizzieW

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Re: What relationship do 2nd cousins twice removed share.
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 30 January 21 16:17 GMT (UK) »
Thank you I'll look at it properly tomorrow when I'm back on my laptop.  Phone is too small.