Author Topic: Were John and Mary Scorey of Fawley originally from Minstead?  (Read 507 times)

Offline Richard A Smith

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Were John and Mary Scorey of Fawley originally from Minstead?
« on: Tuesday 26 January 21 17:47 GMT (UK) »
The surname Scorey first appears in the Fawley parish register in 1778 when a Richard Scorey married a Mary Keeping.  Five of their children are baptised there between 1779 and 1788, with the register often noting that the family was from Hythe.  There are then two baptisms for children of a John and Mary Scorey – Harriet in 1794 and Alicia in 1801 – and it is them that this post is about, as Alicia is my ancestor.  Richard did have a son named John, but he was only 13 when Harriet was born, so he must be someone else.

John was buried in 1818 aged 66, and Mary in 1838, aged 85, so neither appear on a census where we might find their date of birth.  Both burials were in Fawley.  We can be sure the latter was John's wife, not Richard's, as there was an earlier burial there for a Mary who was described as Richard's widow.  John was said to be from Newton while Mary was from Hardley, which is essentially the same place.  This is all I can say with any certainty about John and Mary.

There seems to be no marriage for a John and Mary Scorey anywhere in mainland Hampshire in the few years before Harriet's birth in 1794.  The previous one was a John Scorey and Mary Peirce in 1785 in Minstead, about ten miles across the Forest from Fawley.  You'd have to go back to 1776 to find another.  John's burial suggests a birth in 1751-2, and by far the closest match is a baptism in 1754 in Minstead for the son of a John and Rebecca Scorey.   Similarly, Mary's burial suggests a 1752-3 birth, and there's a baptism in 1755 in Minstead for a Mary, the daughter of Clement and Sarah Peirce, though there's no shortage of potential baptisms for a Mary Peirce slightly further afield.

There's a 1786 baptism for a Jno son of Jno and Mary in Minstead and then the family seems to vanish from Minstead.  There's no burials that could be John's and Mary's, no more children baptised there, and no sign that the younger John remained in Minstead or died there as a child.    On the other hand, there are two burials in Fawley for men named John Scorey – in 1787 and 1802.  One is likely Richard and Mary's son, and it would make sense if the other is the child baptised in Minstead in 1785.  Otherwise this is the only early Scorey burial in Fawley which I cannot explain.

It all fits together very neatly.  The gaps in the Fawley records are all filled by Minstead record, and vice versa.  But there's no hard evidence that they are the same family, and Fawley and Minstead are some way from being neighbouring parishes.  I wondered whether anyone else had encountered this family and has any ideas?

Offline Paco

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Re: Were John and Mary Scorey of Fawley originally from Minstead?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 29 January 21 17:12 GMT (UK) »
I had a look at the Knightroots site for Hampshire, and found the following burials; Richard Scorey 26/11/1815 aged 64 years-Ashlett (this is close by Fawley) John Scorey 10/11/1818 Newtown ( I have never heard of this before, although I did live in the area for a while) Buried in Fawley. Mary Scorey 21/11/1821 Hardley-buried Fawley, widow of Richard, and Mary Scorey 18/3/1838 85 years old. Hardley. There are probably more, but I did not go any further than 1838.
Couldn't find much on Alicia, so followed sister Harriett b. 1793 (her baptism says 1793) she married Thomas Munday 23/3/1818 Fawley, and on the 1841 census Alicia is living with them aged 35 years-born in 1801 she would have been 39-40, but probably rounded down to 35. There is Thomas, Harriett plus what is probably a brother, children of the marriage, and Alicia. The census has Alicia's surname as Munday, but the original was quite hard to read. Pretty sure it is her though as not too many Alicia's around. The census had Newtown Fawley at the top. Can't find her on the 1851 though, but I guess this might help a bit.
Regards.
Essex/Dorset/Berks

Offline Richard A Smith

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Re: Were John and Mary Scorey of Fawley originally from Minstead?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 29 January 21 22:50 GMT (UK) »
I had a look at the Knightroots site for Hampshire, and found the following burials; Richard Scorey 26/11/1815 aged 64 years-Ashlett (this is close by Fawley) John Scorey 10/11/1818 Newtown ( I have never heard of this before, although I did live in the area for a while) Buried in Fawley. Mary Scorey 21/11/1821 Hardley-buried Fawley, widow of Richard, and Mary Scorey 18/3/1838 85 years old. Hardley. There are probably more, but I did not go any further than 1838.

Thanks.  I've got all of these four burials – they must be the two couples who first appear as parents in the baptism register – Richard and Mary, and John and Mary.  Newtown is the old name for the part of Hardley immediately by the Forest Home pub.

Couldn't find much on Alicia, so followed sister Harriett b. 1793 (her baptism says 1793) she married Thomas Munday 23/3/1818 Fawley, and on the 1841 census Alicia is living with them aged 35 years-born in 1801 she would have been 39-40, but probably rounded down to 35. There is Thomas, Harriett plus what is probably a brother, children of the marriage, and Alicia. The census has Alicia's surname as Munday, but the original was quite hard to read. Pretty sure it is her though as not too many Alicia's around. The census had Newtown Fawley at the top. Can't find her on the 1851 though, but I guess this might help a bit.

I'm sure it's them too.  Alicia's surname really was Munday – she married Joseph Munday on 7 Jul 1828 at St Michael's, Southampton.  Both children appear in the Fawley baptism register confirming they were Joseph and Alicia's children, not Thomas and Harriet's.  I think Mary (my ancestor) was their youngest child, born just too early to have a birth certificate.  Alicia was a widow when she married Joseph Munday, and her surname was Roberts at the time.  I've never found the details of the first marriage, but we know from the 1851 and 1861 censuses that Alicia (still living with Harriet, but spelt Elishshe and Elisher) was born in Fawley in about 1800, and Alicia Scorey is the only Alicia in the baptism register around this time.  Furthermore, on the 1861 census we see Harriet and Alicia ["Elisher"] Munday living together, both widowed and listed as sisters.  This could possibly mean sisters-in-law, and it does seem plausible Thomas and Joseph were brothers too, though I cannot find details of Joseph's parents, but it's simpler to take this at face value confirming they were sisters – even if they did marry brothers.

Offline Paco

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Re: Were John and Mary Scorey of Fawley originally from Minstead?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 30 January 21 16:28 GMT (UK) »
I see that it says on both Knightroots and Family Search that Alicia Roberts was married at St Marys Church, Southampton, rather than St Michaels. It also says both of this Parish, so presumably Alicia was working/living in Southampton with ? Roberts until his death, at the time of her marriage.
Found Burials for both a Thomas and Joseph Munday at Fawley Church. Thomas buried 16/1/1858 aged 66 years, which if correct would mean born about 1792 ( there is a baptism Fawley Church for a Thomas Monday 17/4/1791, so this could be him-parents, William and Mary.
Joseph buried 3/3/1843, aged 49 years, so born about 1794. That fits nicely with them possibly being brothers. 1792 and 1794. It says for Joseph that he died in the New Forest Union Workhouse.
You may well know all this, but if not maybe it helps.
Also found on Family Search a Sophia born to Joseph and Alicia, baptised 17/6/1832 Fawley Church.
Regards.
Essex/Dorset/Berks


Offline Richard A Smith

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Re: Were John and Mary Scorey of Fawley originally from Minstead?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 30 January 21 17:14 GMT (UK) »
I see that it says on both Knightroots and Family Search that Alicia Roberts was married at St Marys Church, Southampton, rather than St Michaels.

Sorry, you're quite right.  And that is what I have in my tree – I wasn't being careful enough when I typed that message yesterday.

It also says both of this Parish, so presumably Alicia was working/living in Southampton with ? Roberts until his death, at the time of her marriage.

Yes, I would assume so too.  I did look for burials in Southampton for men in the 15 to 35 age range with the surname Roberts in the mid 1820s, but found no great matches.  There's a Rev E F Roberts, aged 38, in the St Mary's Extra parish register, but he strikes me as the wrong social class and also too old.  And there's a John Roberts buried at St Mary's on 15 May 1828, aged 26, but that's less than two months before her remarriage which seems indecently rapid.

Found Burials for both a Thomas and Joseph Munday at Fawley Church. Thomas buried 16/1/1858 aged 66 years, which if correct would mean born about 1792 ( there is a baptism Fawley Church for a Thomas Monday 17/4/1791, so this could be him-parents, William and Mary.  Joseph buried 3/3/1843, aged 49 years, so born about 1794. That fits nicely with them possibly being brothers. 1792 and 1794. It says for Joseph that he died in the New Forest Union Workhouse.

Yes, I'm fairly certain Thomas is the son of William and Mary.  Joseph's age on the 1843 burial does not match the age on the 1841 census (40, meaning 40 to 44), but i think it is quite probably 'my' Joseph despite this.   To complicate matters further, there are two Joseph Mundays of similar ages.  The other one was buried 15 Mar 1873 aged 79, and family wills make it clear that he is the son of John and Elizabeth Munday, baptised on 17 Sep 1799, even though the dates don't match up perfectly.  As you suggest, I think 'my' Joseph is quite likely another child of William and Mary, and if we trust his age on the 1841 census (40-44) over the age on the burial, he falls neatly into a seven year gap in the sequence of William and Mary's known children, though with Thomas being older than William.

Offline Paco

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Re: Were John and Mary Scorey of Fawley originally from Minstead?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 30 January 21 18:01 GMT (UK) »
I think you can discount the Joseph Munday buried in 1873, as on the 1861 census both Harriett and Alicia were Widows.
Regards.
Essex/Dorset/Berks