Jewish/Ukranian/Russian Surnames help

[Neil_A]

Hello

I'm trying to understand the potential relationships of online listed inhabitants which I know to be a city relevant to my heritage. I know there is something in patronymics here but I cant get my head round whether its relevant to the people listed?

There is a surname Nesanel, Nesanelis, and a Nesaneliv.

I can see the -ich being the equivalent of "son" as in Abramonovich but not the -el, -is, and -iv suffixes. It could be transcription errors or indeed a pronunciation/spelling issue given how similar letters sound in Russian/Ukrainian/Hebrew or Yiddish. But any pointers would be much appreciated.

many thanks
Neil

[JustinL]

Hello Neil,

I've only just noticed this old post of yours.

Nesanel (נתנאל), or Netanel in modern Hebrew pronunciation, is a Jewish given name; Nathaniel is the form that you are probably more familiar with.

So the second two would appear to have the endings -is and -iv. The second ending apparently indicates progeny. The first ending may well have been corrupted in the romanization of the original Ukranian/Russian.

Which list and which city are you referring to?

Justin

[Neil_A]

Hi Justin

Many thanks for responding! The -is and iv connection make sense from the research I've been doing so useful to have it validated.

The city I'm looking at is Berdychiv - though through a bit of DNA matching/deduction I do believe there is also an Odessa connection.

List wise - I can't remember what I was specifically looking at when I posted this request, but I do know I've been using on and off the index of Jewish families from the 1897 census, some of the other 19th century listings on Wiki-source (translated with Google and searching for the Russian text for Nesanel). The Lipes database also has given me the range of Nesanel versions which I've been working through.

Best wishes

neil

[JustinL]

Hi Neil,

I saw your posts on the JG forum from earlier in the year, and was just wondering how the Nesanelis family is connected to the Brooks (formerly Brodsky) or Levene families.

More importantly, I wanted to ask whether you have obtained the marriage authorisation from the United Synagogue for the Brooks-Levene marriage in 1897?

The MA is a valuable document as it will state the full Hebrew/Yiddish names and birthplaces (hopefully the actual town/city) of both bride and groom and whether the groom had any brothers. You can search for and order it here https://www.theus.org.uk/category/find-marriage-record

Justin

[Neil_A]

Hi Justin

Many thanks for the suggestion and link.
I hadn't seen this before so it may prove truly invaluable to adding more context to the story and/or hopefully (!) confirming what I believe to be true. (I'm about 98% certain!!)

As for the Nesanelis vs Brooks vs Brodsky and Levene families - I've been using a combination of DNA matching and detective work, searching newspaper articles (JC and other) and your traditional civil registration records, electoral registers etc.
As the Nesanelis family were originally from the Russian Empire it also meant they were not UK citizens, so they and their future spouses had to apply for UK status. Despite their spouses being born and bred in the UK they 'lost' their nationality on marriage! An archaic and unfair rule but it did mean an extra set of records to investigate..... London Gazette announcements and Applications for Naturalisations (held at the National Archives at Kew). The military were also reluctant to recruit young Russian immigrants at the start of WW1 - cue another set of records to check out.

When I did start out on this 'forgotten' branch of my tree I didn't expect to get very far. But as you say it goes to show that hard graft, a few hypothesis to test, a lockdown or two to allow some dedicated time, and of course some luck, has enabled me to really advance my research. And of course some very helpful folk like yourself to help give some useful pointers around additional sources of information.

best wishes and thanks again

Neil

[JustinL]

Hi Neil,

I really hope, for your sake, that the MA does reveal Simon's exact place of birth. I have attached the MA for the marriage of my great-grandfather's brother in 1880, so you can get idea of the information an MA may provide. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that the Brooks-Levene MA will be as complete.

So, was the Paulina Nesanelis (aka Pauline Brooks) who was re-admitted to British Nationality in 1937 indisputably Simon's widow?

Have you come across anything to link Simon to the Russian Solomon Brooks, a "traveller in jewellery", who died aged 27 in 1902 and was buried in Cardiff? His Hebrew name was Ralman Eliyahu son of Ben-Tsion Shlomeh, which I would have never guessed.

Justin

[Neil_A]

Hi Justin

Thanks again for the pointer to this record source - I ordered over the weekend and it arrived first thing this morning. Sadly It doesn't at first glance add anything to my understanding (though its good to have the record). There is something additional in Hebrew that doesn't have an English equivalent translation, so will look to post that in the other forum (who knows that might be enough to get me to 100%!)

Paulina aka Pauline is the widow - I'm certain of that given her application, newspapers and other sources. I've asked to see her file when Kew reopens in a few weeks (after getting an FOI request approved).

I will need to do some digging on Solomon Brooks - his business, birth location, final resting place and age does point to a connection. Simon had 3 brothers that I'm aware of 1 joining him in the UK, the other 2 staying in Russia. Who's to say there wasn't another brother who also made the journey west?

best wishes

Neil

[JustinL]

Neil,

You can post it here. I'll be able to read the Hebrew.

Justin

[Neil_A]

Many thanks Justin - here you go

best wishes

Neil