Author Topic: For those who like a mystery  (Read 1384 times)

Offline jim1

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #9 on: Friday 05 February 21 23:12 GMT (UK) »
Quote
the 1851 census says she is a house servant so perhaps that will be why she is living there
Quite possible but with such a common name I need to place her with her parents.

Quote
I wonder if Ann could be Hannah’s mother?
Certainly looks like Walter's mother.

Quote
Hannah may have  never known who was recorded as her dad by the clergy in the parish register when she married
She would have given this name at the time, it's difficult to see someone mishearing Edwards as
Watkins.
1 possibility is that his name is Watkin Edwards rather than the other way round.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline heywood

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #10 on: Friday 05 February 21 23:16 GMT (UK) »
I meant the daughter Ann b 1819 as a possibility for Hannah’s mother.
Perhaps illegitimate birth and Mr Watkins was the father.
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Offline jim1

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #11 on: Friday 05 February 21 23:23 GMT (UK) »
I thought of that scenario but it's unusual on a marriage cert.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 06 February 21 11:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jim1
Saw your Post on the Home page late last night and looked at it out of Curiosity to see who you were helping now and on what.
Was totally gobsmacked  to see you were asking for advice on a Mystery in an area that was part of my working life for 40 years.
Thought to myself must try and repay Jim1 tomorrow for all the help and advice you have given me over the years.

I moved from Liverpool in 1977 to get married in Brecon lived just a few miles from Talgarth, passing through it twice a day to and from work for 40 years. Walked, Cycled and drove down all the surrounding lanes there over the years, at weekends passing through Talgarth on route shopping to Brecon, Hereford or Abergavenny.
Both my Wife and I knew all the Farms and personnel in that area in both our employments.
The Baptism Heywood mentions at Llandovally , we lived for 7 years 1981 to 1988 a few hundred yards from Llandefalle Church out in the wilds there.
Small World !

I am of the opinion like Mazi that William Watkins was her known Father though he never married her Mother.

Researching Soldiers over the years I have come across several cases, where a baby was born out of wedlock and therefore Registered under the unmarried Mother's Birthname and no Father recorded or Mother's Maiden Name entered on the GRO Birth Index or Birth Certificate.

Hannah Edwards probably lived with her Mother and Grandparents till she returned to Service.

What evidence do you have that Hannah and Brother Walter were born in Talgarth.

Is it just the "Capel" entry on her Marriage Certificate???

In the past cases I had, sometimes the Father married the Baby's mother a few years after the Birth.
The Child was never Legally adopted but was "known as" on future Census under his name.
But upon Marriage because on their Honesty and Religious upbringing,
would Truthfully declare their Legally Registered Birthname,
 hence the difference on the Marriage Certificate.

Her older Brother Walter Edwards appears to have left the Talgarth area gone through Crickhowell, Llangattock and over The Beacons to Brynmawr to live there and work in the Mine there.

When we had relatives come to stay with us from Merseyside we would take them to "The Big Pit" Mine Museum Brynmawr and take them down the Mine that Walter probably worked in.

Small World !
 

CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline jim1

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 06 February 21 12:29 GMT (UK) »
I'm not sure Walter Edwards is her brother just that he was a witness
at Hannah's marriage. They list different fathers.
Capel is all she puts as her place of residence & Talgarth is where she says
she was born on the census.
Yes it is a small world but big enough for Hannah to get lost in.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 06 February 21 13:10 GMT (UK) »
Thought Capel was probably from Marriage Certificate
There is no area Capel in the Talgarth area.
If she was declaring Birth in Capel Hamlet she is referring to Capel as us locals called it
Meaning Capel y Ffyn up in the wilds of Llanthony Valley on the Welsh side of Offa's Dyke on the narrow C class Road
Hay on Wye to Pandy on the A465 Hereford to Abergavenny Road the route Miner Walter would have taken to migrate to Brynmawr .
Capel is now about 1 hr away and 20 miles from Talgarth via Car now via Hay on Wye where we lived 1988 to 2016
Would never use shorter AA planner route of 13 miles unless I was on Horseback which I have been many a time at Tregoyd and would have been her only means of Transport then.

BBC2 Gardener Monty Don has his Farm at The Vision Farm at Capel
"Not alot of people know that !"

If Hannah was born and lived at Capel she would not have had her Birth Registered in Brecknock but Rather
Hereford Herefordshire or more likely Abergavenny Monmouthshire.

You also need to look on 1841 1851 Census in those areas.

Her Father not having work for her on the Farm in the wilds of Capel in her Teens

Would probably have sent her into Service 1849  ish in the Talgarth area that had some Rich Families and Big Houses in that area
 the Vaughans and the Powells
It would have been uncommon for the Master to get the Servant pregnant
She would leave the household and go into local lodgings.
Then her Mother would meet someone prepared to take them both on as his own though not legally.

Which 1851 Census District 1,2,3 or 4 in Talgarth is she on ? And what address or Head?
Don't understand the RGO refs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capel-y-ffin
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline jim1

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 06 February 21 13:50 GMT (UK) »
ED=2.
Head of house is farmer Lewis Williams.
Address is unpronounceable.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline heywood

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 06 February 21 14:07 GMT (UK) »
It looks like Blaenffinant, Forest, Talgarth
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline osprey

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Re: For those who like a mystery
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 06 February 21 14:21 GMT (UK) »
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb