Author Topic: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification  (Read 344 times)

Offline Aussielass

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Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« on: Friday 12 February 21 03:19 GMT (UK) »

Hi, it would appreciated if both children could please have a clean up, they are both looking a bit grubby. 

Aside from needing a good clean up I'm not sure who is who, I am trying to determine which one is the male, and which is the female. 

What we know -  A male child was born in 1887 (Percy) and female (Lily) born in 1890 (brother and sister).  I have learnt not to guess gender of a baby/child photo of that era based on the clothing.  Boys were often photographed in what looked like a dress often a christening gown.

My dilemma is that someone has written Percy on the back of the "Massingham photo" which I would have expected to be Lily, because the child looks more like a girl.

In a nutshell, does anyone think the baby in the "Bloch" photo could be female, even though she looks more like a boy?

The photographer listed as Theodor Bloch operated in Geelong form 1888-1891.  Massingham from 1886-1902.

Age I am guessing for the child in the Massingham photo would be 12 - 18 months, and the "Bloch" photo maybe a bit less.

Sorry if I have used too many words, I'm just trying to explain myself, Apologies if I sound confusing.  ::) ::)

Kind Regards,  Aussielass  :)
 
Duggan, William - Wales c.1795, Australia
White, Eleanor - Queens Co. Ireland c.1810
Aspinall, Alexander - Lancashire
Beardsell, Jonas - Huddersfield, Yorkshire
Anderson, William - Ballyrashane, Londonderry, Ireland 1802, Australia,Vic,Tasmania
Cochrane, Mary Ann- Agadowey, Derry, Ireland - 1835
Langford, Richard - Brierley Hill, Stafford/Blakedown, Hagley, Worcester, NZ, Aust.
Cann, Eliza - Grantchester, Cambridge - 1839
Tait, Christopher - Delting, Shetland - 1854
Johnson - Shetland

Offline japeflakes

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Re: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« Reply #1 on: Friday 12 February 21 11:04 GMT (UK) »
quick clean 1

Offline japeflakes

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Re: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« Reply #2 on: Friday 12 February 21 11:26 GMT (UK) »
quick go 2


Offline Aussielass

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Re: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« Reply #3 on: Friday 12 February 21 21:58 GMT (UK) »

Japeflakes, thank you, they really were in poor condition, and your quick clean worked wonders.

Kind Regards,  Aussielass  :)
Duggan, William - Wales c.1795, Australia
White, Eleanor - Queens Co. Ireland c.1810
Aspinall, Alexander - Lancashire
Beardsell, Jonas - Huddersfield, Yorkshire
Anderson, William - Ballyrashane, Londonderry, Ireland 1802, Australia,Vic,Tasmania
Cochrane, Mary Ann- Agadowey, Derry, Ireland - 1835
Langford, Richard - Brierley Hill, Stafford/Blakedown, Hagley, Worcester, NZ, Aust.
Cann, Eliza - Grantchester, Cambridge - 1839
Tait, Christopher - Delting, Shetland - 1854
Johnson - Shetland

Offline Treetotal

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Re: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« Reply #4 on: Friday 12 February 21 22:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi AL, I don't think there is much age difference between the two and have learnt over time that children in Victorian times tend to be photographed at the same age. Although facially the second photo looks more like a boy I think it could be a girl as the child appears more dainty than the child in the first photo.
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
RESTORERS:PLEASE DO NOT USE MY RESTORES WITHOUT PRIOR PERMISSION - THANK YOU

Offline Aussielass

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Re: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 13 February 21 03:20 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Carol,

The first photo does have Percy written on the back of it, even though his clothes look more feminine than the second photo.  On that basis, I would have to assume that the second photo is his sister Lily even though she looks more like a boy.  The child in the 2nd photo also has smaller eyes. Percy didn't have small eyes, as per the attached photo when he was about 10 years old. 
Sadly we have no later photos of his sister to compare, because she drowned in a well at the age of four.
Kind Regards, Aussielass

Duggan, William - Wales c.1795, Australia
White, Eleanor - Queens Co. Ireland c.1810
Aspinall, Alexander - Lancashire
Beardsell, Jonas - Huddersfield, Yorkshire
Anderson, William - Ballyrashane, Londonderry, Ireland 1802, Australia,Vic,Tasmania
Cochrane, Mary Ann- Agadowey, Derry, Ireland - 1835
Langford, Richard - Brierley Hill, Stafford/Blakedown, Hagley, Worcester, NZ, Aust.
Cann, Eliza - Grantchester, Cambridge - 1839
Tait, Christopher - Delting, Shetland - 1854
Johnson - Shetland

Offline McGroger

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Re: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 13 February 21 04:13 GMT (UK) »
Had a go at baby Percy. Wow, AL, that's a lovely later version of him, looks suspiciously like Carol's work. And I think it is Percy; he was certainly good looking enough to be a "pretty" baby. I think a lot of families kept boys in skirts rather than trousers until they were toilet trained. More practical, I think, than what we do today.
Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.

Offline McGroger

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Re: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 13 February 21 06:30 GMT (UK) »
And the other one.

AL, in my experience kids' hair just about always goes darker as they get older. I couldn't see this one turning as fair as ten year-old Percy's, so I think it must be Lily. And what a sad story!

Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.

Offline Aussielass

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Re: Duggan Children born 1887 and 1890 for clean and help with identification
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 13 February 21 06:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Peter, very nice clean up of the two little Duggan's, thank you, they look great!  :-*

Dumb of me to not have the name of the restorer in the file name of the 10 year old one of Percy, I do believe it was Carol, so credit for the great resto.

Thanks also Peter for the clarification of "who's who".

Kind Regards,  Aussielass
Duggan, William - Wales c.1795, Australia
White, Eleanor - Queens Co. Ireland c.1810
Aspinall, Alexander - Lancashire
Beardsell, Jonas - Huddersfield, Yorkshire
Anderson, William - Ballyrashane, Londonderry, Ireland 1802, Australia,Vic,Tasmania
Cochrane, Mary Ann- Agadowey, Derry, Ireland - 1835
Langford, Richard - Brierley Hill, Stafford/Blakedown, Hagley, Worcester, NZ, Aust.
Cann, Eliza - Grantchester, Cambridge - 1839
Tait, Christopher - Delting, Shetland - 1854
Johnson - Shetland