Author Topic: Help needed with (German?) memorial at Preston Cemetery, North Shields  (Read 575 times)

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Help needed with (German?) memorial at Preston Cemetery, North Shields
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 20 February 21 08:12 GMT (UK) »
Thank you also to Elwyn Souter, Boo, Josey and Berlin Bob for all your help with this.
What a heartfelt inscription he has according to the interpretation.

I have been thinking about this and I agree with Shaun that this on FamilySearch surely cannot be right about him dying in Austria.  His death seems to have been registered in Tyneside (I have no doubt he is Johann) so he must have died here.
As for the start of the inscription 'I Zeug' meaning 'stuff' - I have been thinking a few things on this.  Firstly could this translate roughly to 'here is some stuff on Emele'.  However, that would seem a bit blase  to put on a memorial.  Could it be his nickname?  Although, I am not convinced about this either. 
I am also wondering if he might have been a sailor/traveller and if more than one person in the party died and there may have been a mix up with names when providing the inscription.  Perhaps there is an 'I.  Zeug' buried somewhere is the cemetery in an unmarked grave?
Anyway, it might be that Johann had money (or someone else had on his behalf) as he has a purchased grave with a reasonably sized memorial (albeit a plainly designed one).  As there is a gap between the top and bottom inscription, I wonder if this was deliberate, perhaps with the thought in mind that his family may have wanted to add something else later on, but this never happened.

When North Shields local studies reopens again I will be able to check out the actual burial register and I will get back on here and will enter on Find A Grave whatever I find in the entry.  Hopefully, there might be more clues in the register.

I have remembered something else - this memorial is in section J which is Roman Catholic.

I will be updating this memorial at some point today and will add a postem to his freebmd entry.

Thank you once again to each of you who have posted.  I really appreciate the time you have given and your thoughts and help with this.  :)

Added:  I have now updated the memorial on Find A Grave this morning.  I have also now added a couple of postems to his entry on Freebmd.  These postems may not appear though for up to 24 hours.  It is good that there is information out there now for him for any of his family descendants who might want to find him.  Thanks once again for all help. :)

Added: I have since received some more info from someone else.  Apparently on Find My Past it shows he died in the infirmary.  I wonder if this might have been Tynemouth infirmary or alternatively the Tynemouth workhouse (hospital)?
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline Sandblown

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Re: Help needed with (German?) memorial at Preston Cemetery, North Shields
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 20 February 21 09:32 GMT (UK) »
Just a suggestion. Zeug could be a miss spelling of the German word Zeuge, which translates as Witness. So it could mean, '"I Witness, for here lies...."
Kirkham, Garlick, Worthington, Shaw, Bamber. Fylde Coast
Naylor/Nailor, Lyons, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire
Redfern. Cheshire/Derbyshire
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Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: Help needed with (German?) memorial at Preston Cemetery, North Shields
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 20 February 21 09:59 GMT (UK) »
p.s.

"Ruhe sanft" is also used as the german equivalent of "R.I.P."

https://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=ruhe+sanft&iservice=

Bob
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)


Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Help needed with (German?) memorial at Preston Cemetery, North Shields
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 20 February 21 10:01 GMT (UK) »
ZE**
I am not at all convinced that the last letter is a G, If you compare it to the G in Geb,Gestrorb, August. it doesn't appear to be the same.It looks more like the O in Gestorb.
So I'd go for ZE(H/N)O could be a nickname, but that's pure conjecture.

re the info on FindMyPast, its been taken from the record on FS, so still says he died in Austria, which is obviously incorrect.
Without seeing the actual record its difficult to tell, but cemetery records do often have both a place of death (or where the body was removed from) and a usual or home address.
So died at the Infirmary, usual address Austria would seem more likely to be what is in the original record.

Boo

Offline josey

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Re: Help needed with (German?) memorial at Preston Cemetery, North Shields
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 20 February 21 10:55 GMT (UK) »
Could the 'I' be for Johan & the 'Zeug' or 'Zeng' for Ludwig? Could the engraver may have misheard/misread the name?

However, if the inscription at bottom is all correct German, it appears that a German speaker was involved with the memorial.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Help needed with (German?) memorial at Preston Cemetery, North Shields
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 20 February 21 11:11 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for this Sandblown, Berlin Bob, Boo & Josey .. give me a mo' and I will update the memorial with  this .. 

I can't imagine how this could have been so misheard/misspelt Josey - so I will pause with that idea just for now.  Yes, I agree a German speaker must have been involved with the memorial, giving an inscription likely the majority visiting the cemetery would be unable to understand.  Perhaps either lack of understanding of English or limited funds may have been the reason for no included English interpretation.
I have seen obvious mistakes in these earlier burial entries so it I suppose it might be that the person writing the recording might have had difficulties fully understanding what was related for an inscription.

It will be interesting to see what the burial register entry might record at some point in the future when it becomes possible for me to view this.  Although, I know at that time period recordings tended to be brief.  It will be useful to see if there may have been a ceremony and if so which minister performed it.  I suspect if so, it would have been a local RC minister.  In which case he may have an entry in a Catholic Church register such as St Cuthbert.  As Catholics tended to be good recorders with cross referencing, I suppose there might be a possibility that such a death entry in an RC death register could contain more info too.

Added: There! I have just updated the memorial with all new suggestions.  Thank you so much.  You cannot do better than turn to RootsChat when help is needed.  :)
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner