Author Topic: Dorothy MARSHALL - brick wall, fresh eyes needed  (Read 275 times)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Dorothy MARSHALL - brick wall, fresh eyes needed
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 20 February 21 11:57 GMT (UK) »
Only Thomas I can find that is a Farmer;

1871 Census
Thomas Marshall 43 Head mar Farmer born North Shields
Jane Marshall   35
Thomas W Marshall   3
Elizabeth M Marshall   1
Isabella Marshall 39 Sister
Elizabeth Huggan 63
Dorothy Walson   32
Dorothy Green   20
John Gunn   29
Robert Rowell 33

He was buried 26 Aug 1852 Bedlington age 44 (FreeREG)

He married Jane THORBURN 02 Dec 1846 (FreeREG)

So you can rule that one out.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Dorothy MARSHALL - brick wall, fresh eyes needed
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 20 February 21 12:03 GMT (UK) »
Nothing in the marriage record indicates that Thomas (even if he isn't a convenient fiction) came from Bedlington.

Have you looked for Catherine's baptism?

Pauline

Oh my, my note making is rusty too! I've written Bedlington but as you say there is no indication. I only have Dorothy's birthplace as Bedlington. I have also made other assumptions, mainly that Thomas was present. Also, that Thomas's surname is Marshall. Given that I have a possible birth match listing the mother as Catherine Marshall as a single mum, could this indicate shes taken the mothers surname and the father was simply Thomas, and surname assumed for the marriage record? I cannot find a marriage that would work, or even a death for Thomas if they were a family and something happened early on.

I realise I am making a lot of jumps and assumptions, but I cannot think of any other way to get a story here.

Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Dorothy MARSHALL - brick wall, fresh eyes needed
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 21 February 21 19:17 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for all your suggestions. I think I have all I can get out of this and believe I have the correct Dorothy Marshall and her mum as Catherine.

As a side note and to link things together, Dorothy Marshall is found in 1851 aged 2 at Hill Gate with the Browns as a granddaughter, and her mum working as a servant just over the river in Newgate Street. In 1861 she is away elsewhere, and I cannot find her in 1871. In 1881 after marrying William Martin, she is back again to Hill Gate, so I am currently hunting out maps to see how close the houses were, but they are both near the start of the count from Wansbeck Street. In 1891 they are found at Newgate Street, again checking maps to see if there is any connection where Catherine was in 1851.

So all thats left to find is Dorothy in 1871 and what the connection is to the Browns.


Offline trish1120

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Re: Dorothy MARSHALL - brick wall, fresh eyes needed
« Reply #12 on: Monday 22 February 21 09:44 GMT (UK) »
I cant see Dorothy or Catherine in 1871.

Also at this stage see no connection to the Browns.

Henry BROWN married Mary ATKINSON 1818 (FreeREG)
Childrens bapts are on FreeREG
Elizabeth 1819
Ann 1829
Roger 1823 buried 1824 age 1
Roger 1824
Jane 1836 buried 1836 age 7 weeks
Amos 1838 buried 1838 age 14 days
Amos 1840

Husband Henry was buried 30 Apr 1845 age 51
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Dorothy MARSHALL - brick wall, fresh eyes needed
« Reply #13 on: Monday 22 February 21 10:58 GMT (UK) »
I cant see Dorothy or Catherine in 1871.

Also at this stage see no connection to the Browns.

Henry BROWN married Mary ATKINSON 1818 (FreeREG)
Childrens bapts are on FreeREG
Elizabeth 1819
Ann 1829
Roger 1823 buried 1824 age 1
Roger 1824
Jane 1836 buried 1836 age 7 weeks
Amos 1838 buried 1838 age 14 days
Amos 1840

Husband Henry was buried 30 Apr 1845 age 51


I can't find Catherine in 1871 either. I do have a death in 1867 Morpeth for a Catherine Marshall but aged 46 will put her b.c.1821, a little early, though her census details are sketchy too.

I came to the same conclusion re: the Brown branch and that family. The granddaughter listing is throwing me off, am I right in thinking that to make this fit, Catherine would be the daughter of Henry and Mary with the surname Brown, and then went off and got married to Marshall then had a daughter Dorothy? For what ever reason, the christening lists her as a single mother, though if she took that surname and something happened with the father, surely she would be listed as widowed? The only other thing is that she is indeed Marshall, and for whatever reason on census night, Mary Brown said Dorothy was a granddaughter for ease, rather than explaining a different scenario. Thats all I can think of to get to that surname whilst keeping the granddaughter link.

I think I'm over thinking this!

Offline jonw65

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Re: Dorothy MARSHALL - brick wall, fresh eyes needed
« Reply #14 on: Monday 22 February 21 11:24 GMT (UK) »
Just to put the bits about Catherine together.
1841 in Bedlington
Cathrine Marshall, 17
With John Marshall, 71, Ann, 59
Isabella, 12, Ann, 2, and Ann 20.
John a Servant
Does it say all not born county?
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6K-99QC-T

1851 in Morpeth (Newgate Street)
Catherine Marshall, 24, Servant, born Northumberland Little Harle
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGXH-M97

1861 in Morpeth (Union Street)
Catherine Marshall Head Un 38, born Northumbd Little harle
Ann Marshall daur 2 Northumbd Morpeth
John Marshall daur(!) 2m (male column) Northumbd Morpeth
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-992X-HHF7

Likely parish of birth for Catherine seems to be Kirkwhelpington.
BTs are on FamilySearch
To John and Ann(e) Marshall we have
20 Nov 1814 (born 22 Nov 1813)
Mary
Abode Littleharle
Father a Labourer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-KSX

19 Nov 1818
Dorothy
Abode Littleharle
Father a Labourer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-FPV

16 Sep 1821
Jane
abode Littleharle Wellhouse
father John Marshall a Labourer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-JK2

29 March 1824
Charlotte
abode Well-house
Father a Hind
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-JPG

8 Nov 1829 (born 8? May)
Isabella
abode Wellhouse
Father a Husbandman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-NV2

Might have missed some!
Could Catherine have been baptized as Charlotte? :-\



Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Dorothy MARSHALL - brick wall, fresh eyes needed
« Reply #15 on: Monday 22 February 21 13:19 GMT (UK) »
Just to put the bits about Catherine together.
1841 in Bedlington
Cathrine Marshall, 17
With John Marshall, 71, Ann, 59
Isabella, 12, Ann, 2, and Ann 20.
John a Servant
Does it say all not born county?
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6K-99QC-T

1851 in Morpeth (Newgate Street)
Catherine Marshall, 24, Servant, born Northumberland Little Harle
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGXH-M97

1861 in Morpeth (Union Street)
Catherine Marshall Head Un 38, born Northumbd Little harle
Ann Marshall daur 2 Northumbd Morpeth
John Marshall daur(!) 2m (male column) Northumbd Morpeth
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-992X-HHF7

Likely parish of birth for Catherine seems to be Kirkwhelpington.
BTs are on FamilySearch
To John and Ann(e) Marshall we have
20 Nov 1814 (born 22 Nov 1813)
Mary
Abode Littleharle
Father a Labourer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-KSX

19 Nov 1818
Dorothy
Abode Littleharle
Father a Labourer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-FPV

16 Sep 1821
Jane
abode Littleharle Wellhouse
father John Marshall a Labourer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-JK2

29 March 1824
Charlotte
abode Well-house
Father a Hind
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-JPG

8 Nov 1829 (born 8? May)
Isabella
abode Wellhouse
Father a Husbandman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTX3-NV2

Might have missed some!
Could Catherine have been baptized as Charlotte? :-\

WOW, that is some digging! I think you might be right, matching the baptisms to the family in 1841 looks like Charlotte could indeed be Catherine. The 20 year old transcribed as 'Ann' looks to be written as 'Jane' on the sheet, again matching what you have found.

It does look to say 'no' for born in county which is odd, Little Harle (or Kirkwhelpington) is part of Northumberland as is Bedlington, though back in 1840 they may have considered themselves out of area.

I can't find the parents again in 1851 but I have Isabella at Kirkly Hall as a servant. I'll explore this a little deeper, thanks @Jonw65 ;)