Author Topic: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification  (Read 593 times)

Offline Ayashi

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Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« on: Saturday 20 February 21 16:15 GMT (UK) »
Hello all.

I was approached the other day by a military historian who has bought some medals that appear to belong to my 2nd great grandfather. He wanted to share information / reunite the medals with the family.

The medals concerned are a Tubruk/Suakin medal and a Khedive star, both in good condition, along with a photograph supposedly of my 2nd great grandfather (!!). I knew we had some medals and although my mother has been obstructive to my enquiries I found an old photo that show that we have a Khedive star and a LSGC medal of his. He was entitled to the Tubruk medal but we don't appear to have it in our collection. The historian suggests that we probably have the original Khedive and the one he has is a later addition (he has shown me the photos of the ones he has, along with the name inscribed on the Tubruk medal).

As far as the photo goes, I have asked older members of the family if they believe he shares any family resemblance to his son/grandsons. While we all appear to be equally bad at determining this, I think I do see a marked similarity between the man in the photo and one of his grandsons. That said, one of my cousins has a partner with supposed military knowledge who has shed doubt on pretty much everything, from the time period to the geographical location of the uniform (I have excluded this for a reason).

The historian is happy to keep the medals (and no rush of course) but if I wish to buy them (and I do!!) he has asked that I pay what he originally paid, which is a significant amount. He has shown me the original listing to verify his quoted price.

Essentially this post in in two parts-
Firstly, I'd like advice on making an expensive transaction of this nature. They probably do belong to my great great grandfather and I feel they should be reunited with the rest of his belongings. I'm mildly annoyed that they got separated and sold in the first place and have no idea who did it. I also have no idea how much these medals are usually worth.

Secondly, despite a growing feeling that he's the right person, I'd like to address my cousin's concerns about the photograph. I haven't mentioned the time period or military details with a view to getting expertise on the photograph itself, posted with permission. I can elaborate on both the opinion and on what it is meant to be if desired.



Thanks in advance
Ayashi

Offline tonepad

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Re: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 20 February 21 16:38 GMT (UK) »
The photo was taken before the medals were awarded, as there are no medal ribbons on the tunic.

Do you know which regiment or corps your ancestor served in?
Could verify the shape of the cap badge.


The cap appears to be a Glengarry, assuming this is not a Scottish regiment then:

"Between 1868 and 1897, the glengarry was also worn as an undress cap for most British soldiers until replaced by the short-lived Field Service Cap."

This time period is coincident with the Tubruk/Suakin medal and Khedive star.


Tony
Aucock/Aukett~Kent/Sussex, Bing~Kent, Broadway~Oxfordshire, Danks~Warwickshire, Fenn~Kent/Norfolk, Goatham~Kent, Hunt~Kent, Parker~Middlesex, Sellers~Kent/Yorkshire, Sladden~Kent, Wright~Kent/Essex

Offline Ayashi

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Re: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 20 February 21 17:01 GMT (UK) »
Thank you.

Yes, I know where he served, which was definitely not Scotland (cousin's partner reckoned Scots uniform as well). My ancestor was Royal Marines Light Infantry in Plymouth between 1882 and 1916.


Offline cath151

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Re: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 20 February 21 17:08 GMT (UK) »
Interestingly the photographer appears to be in Canada?
https://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/Canada-DukeofWellingtonsAlbumGroup.html

Cathy
Sinnock/Sinnicks...Brighton,Greenwich.
Clements,Coles,Mc Donagh,Rock

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Offline Ayashi

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Re: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 20 February 21 17:15 GMT (UK) »
Canada? Oh dear, that makes things even more confusing! There's nothing in his military records about Canada.  :-\

His uniform is very similar to the ones on that website, with exception of collar and sleeves. I don't know what that means though.

Offline josey

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Re: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 20 February 21 17:24 GMT (UK) »
It might be worth looking to see which regiments were at Halifax Garrison when Bayley & Murphy were in business.
https://www.johncordes.ca/genealogy2/regiments/britishregiments_halifax.html
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline Ayashi

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Re: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 20 February 21 17:40 GMT (UK) »
I suddenly had an epiphany when I realised that his stepdaughter got married in Ontario, Canada. I then looked up the distance between Halifax and Ontario and laughed.

Offline T1

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Re: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 20 February 21 17:47 GMT (UK) »
As to the photo:

Without getting into tedious uniform minutiae (I can if you like!) I will say that this photo is 100 per cent consistent with the Royal Marine Light Infantry through the 1880s and first half of the 1890s.  Read my other posts, I hope you will see I know what I am talking about when it comes to late Victorian uniforms.

A list of garrison units serving in Halifax will not help with this, as if he was in the RMLI he would have been in Halifax as a member of a Royal Navy ship's company, not as part of the army Garrison.

A member of the RMLI serving in the "Plymouth Division" between 1882 and 1915 would have spent almost his entire career as part of small details of marines onboard different ships around the globe - at this period that's what the Royal Marines were for.

Offline Ayashi

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Re: Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 20 February 21 17:53 GMT (UK) »
Thank you T1. Wouldn't his service records reflect his service on board a ship though? His records state that between 7 Aug 1882 and 2 May 1883 he was at the recruit depot in Walmer. Between 3 May 1883 and 9 Feb 1884 he was in Plymouth.... No, I've just realised I might be dumb. His records say "Name of division or ship" not his location  ::) He was "Co. 47, Plymouth Division" between those dates, before 10 Feb 1884-16 May 1885 when he was "RM Battn Egypt".