Author Topic: Is this the missing link?  (Read 262 times)

Offline Davedrave

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Is this the missing link?
« on: Sunday 21 February 21 09:58 GMT (UK) »
John and Ann Sayers had numerous children baptised in Chelmsford in the 1790ís to early 1800ís, including William in 1797. (This?) William had a younger brother, John*, who seems not to have been baptised, but would have been born in the early 1800ís. All but one of the known baptisms of John and Annís children took place at St Maryís. The last and somewhat later baptism seems to have been at Baddow Lane Independent Chapel. One of theses records gives father Johnís occupation: shoemaker.

In 1841 John, ď35Ē, was a shoemaker, living in King Street. In the next street, Rainsford End, was John Sayers, ď65Ē, shoemaker. When William son of (this?) John had his son baptised in 1815 he was living at Gallows End in Chelmsford (which seems to have been in the vicinity of these other streets).

Unfortunately I can find no trace whatsoever of the older John Sayers in the 1851 Census. However, a John Sayers aged ď85Ē was buried at St Maryís in 1853, and his abode was King Street. How convincingly does this evidence suggest that John Sayers who died in 1853 was father of the brothers?

(*The relationship of brothers William, and John Sayers of King Street is only known due to their trial and criminal conviction in 1842)


Offline jim1

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 21 February 21 11:59 GMT (UK) »
Unless you can find another John Sayers shoemaker having
children at the same time in Chelmsford I would say he's
the father.
Did he leave a will?
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline janan

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 21 February 21 13:03 GMT (UK) »

In Bloomsbury in 1851 there is a John N Sayers ?83 Widr Bootmaker born Chelmsford staying with Samuel and Ann Everitt in Bloomsbury. Ann is age 50 born Chelmsford. He is listed  as Father.

HO107/1507/377 Pg58
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge


Offline Davedrave

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 21 February 21 13:26 GMT (UK) »
Unless you can find another John Sayers shoemaker having
children at the same time in Chelmsford I would say he's
the father.
Did he leave a will?

Thanks. Unfortunately they donít seem to have left will, but I donít think that the other Sayers seem to include shoemakers, though one of the same generation as John was a harness maker. Johns are not common either.

Dave ;)

Offline Davedrave

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 21 February 21 13:31 GMT (UK) »

In Bloomsbury in 1851 there is a John N Sayers ?83 Widr Bootmaker born Chelmsford staying with Samuel and Ann Everitt in Bloomsbury. Ann is age 50 born Chelmsford. He is listed  as Father.

HO107/1507/377 Pg58

Thank you, this is interesting and Iíll pursue it. I hadnít envisaged someone of his age gadding about the country! I can find no baptism of an Ann to John and Ann Sayers, but the name itself is suggestive and son (?) John certainly named a daughter Ann.

Dave :)

Offline Davedrave

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 21 February 21 16:40 GMT (UK) »
A Nicholas John Sayers was baptised in Chelmsford St Mary in July 1768 which fits in well with the age of John N Sayers. I suppose that Mr Sayers could have used his middle name in preference to his first name and called himself John N Sayers in preference to Nicholas J Sayers. Nicholas is a name which doesnít seem to occur among his (?) children, but maybe he just didnít like it.

Iím tempted to order the death reg of 85 year old John, but Iím just a bit concerned that I might find that the informant might turn out to be ďMrs BloggsĒ next door, and Iíll not actually be any closer to proof than I am now.




Online BumbleB

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 21 February 21 16:50 GMT (UK) »
BUT - if you don't ask the question, then you won't get an answer.  :)  Is £7.00 too much to forfeit?  The choice is yours.   :-*  I know what I'd do.   :-X
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline Davedrave

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 21 February 21 17:06 GMT (UK) »
BUT - if you don't ask the question, then you won't get an answer.  :)  Is £7.00 too much to forfeit?  The choice is yours.   :-*  I know what I'd do.   :-X

Youíve twisted my arm! ;D

Online BumbleB

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 21 February 21 17:10 GMT (UK) »
Oh    :-X :-X :-X :-X  ;D ;D


Added:  Please come back and tell us the result. 
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY