Author Topic: Is this the missing link?  (Read 701 times)

Offline Davedrave

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Is this the missing link?
« on: Sunday 21 February 21 09:58 GMT (UK) »
John and Ann Sayers had numerous children baptised in Chelmsford in the 1790’s to early 1800’s, including William in 1797. (This?) William had a younger brother, John*, who seems not to have been baptised, but would have been born in the early 1800’s. All but one of the known baptisms of John and Ann’s children took place at St Mary’s. The last and somewhat later baptism seems to have been at Baddow Lane Independent Chapel. One of theses records gives father John’s occupation: shoemaker.

In 1841 John, “35”, was a shoemaker, living in King Street. In the next street, Rainsford End, was John Sayers, “65”, shoemaker. When William son of (this?) John had his son baptised in 1815 he was living at Gallows End in Chelmsford (which seems to have been in the vicinity of these other streets).

Unfortunately I can find no trace whatsoever of the older John Sayers in the 1851 Census. However, a John Sayers aged “85” was buried at St Mary’s in 1853, and his abode was King Street. How convincingly does this evidence suggest that John Sayers who died in 1853 was father of the brothers?

(*The relationship of brothers William, and John Sayers of King Street is only known due to their trial and criminal conviction in 1842)

ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

Offline jim1

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 21 February 21 11:59 GMT (UK) »
Unless you can find another John Sayers shoemaker having
children at the same time in Chelmsford I would say he's
the father.
Did he leave a will?
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline janan

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 21 February 21 13:03 GMT (UK) »

In Bloomsbury in 1851 there is a John N Sayers ?83 Widr Bootmaker born Chelmsford staying with Samuel and Ann Everitt in Bloomsbury. Ann is age 50 born Chelmsford. He is listed  as Father.

HO107/1507/377 Pg58
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline Davedrave

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 21 February 21 13:26 GMT (UK) »
Unless you can find another John Sayers shoemaker having
children at the same time in Chelmsford I would say he's
the father.
Did he leave a will?

Thanks. Unfortunately they don’t seem to have left will, but I don’t think that the other Sayers seem to include shoemakers, though one of the same generation as John was a harness maker. Johns are not common either.

Dave ;)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight


Offline Davedrave

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 21 February 21 13:31 GMT (UK) »

In Bloomsbury in 1851 there is a John N Sayers ?83 Widr Bootmaker born Chelmsford staying with Samuel and Ann Everitt in Bloomsbury. Ann is age 50 born Chelmsford. He is listed  as Father.

HO107/1507/377 Pg58

Thank you, this is interesting and I’ll pursue it. I hadn’t envisaged someone of his age gadding about the country! I can find no baptism of an Ann to John and Ann Sayers, but the name itself is suggestive and son (?) John certainly named a daughter Ann.

Dave :)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

Offline Davedrave

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 21 February 21 16:40 GMT (UK) »
A Nicholas John Sayers was baptised in Chelmsford St Mary in July 1768 which fits in well with the age of John N Sayers. I suppose that Mr Sayers could have used his middle name in preference to his first name and called himself John N Sayers in preference to Nicholas J Sayers. Nicholas is a name which doesn’t seem to occur among his (?) children, but maybe he just didn’t like it.

I’m tempted to order the death reg of 85 year old John, but I’m just a bit concerned that I might find that the informant might turn out to be “Mrs Bloggs” next door, and I’ll not actually be any closer to proof than I am now.



ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 21 February 21 16:50 GMT (UK) »
BUT - if you don't ask the question, then you won't get an answer.  :)  Is £7.00 too much to forfeit?  The choice is yours.   :-*  I know what I'd do.   :-X
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline Davedrave

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 21 February 21 17:06 GMT (UK) »
BUT - if you don't ask the question, then you won't get an answer.  :)  Is £7.00 too much to forfeit?  The choice is yours.   :-*  I know what I'd do.   :-X

You’ve twisted my arm! ;D
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Is this the missing link?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 21 February 21 17:10 GMT (UK) »
Oh    :-X :-X :-X :-X  ;D ;D


Added:  Please come back and tell us the result. 
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY