Author Topic: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?  (Read 1048 times)

Online M_ONeill

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Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« on: Thursday 25 February 21 01:13 GMT (UK) »
(Note: this question is an offshoot of a more general research thread in the Derry subforum here)

So I've found the 1884 will of one James O'Neill, a possible sibling of my 3x great grandmother Ellen. One peculiar thing I discovered is that every time his name appears in the will it is written out as 'James O'Neill (Henry)' - see attachment below.

I've not come across this before and I was wondering if anyone else had seen something similar. Is there some standard meaning for this in wills of the time? Is it a middle name? An indication of a link to the Henry family (of which there were many in the local area)?

I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has any experience with this sort of thing in Irish family history!

Online heywood

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 25 February 21 01:35 GMT (UK) »
Is he the son of Henry, to perhaps distinguish him from another James in the extended family.
Or maybe, in everyday life, he is just referred to as Henry rather than James.
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Online Rena

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 25 February 21 01:57 GMT (UK) »
If he was a Catholic, could one name be the name he was baptised with and the other name could be the name he was given at his confirmation?

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Online M_ONeill

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 25 February 21 01:58 GMT (UK) »
We're not sure on James' parents as he was born c1813 and the records are sparse, but the current theory is that he may be the son of James O'Neill and Esther Downing - based mainly on his very close relationships with cousins in the Downing family, nephews of Esther.

I have only just started looking into potential Henry connections, but there *may* be a connection between local Henry families and the Downings - maybe even with the O'Neills.

Edit: Just saw your response Rena - I suppose it's possible, but I haven't seen confirmation names used on Wills, has anyone else ever come across something similar?


Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 25 February 21 03:16 GMT (UK) »
It is not a surname. In Ireland an appended name like that usually denotes the father's Christian name - so as to avoid ambiguity. This was a system frequently employed in Irish records, so there is little reason to suppose it is different in this case.

An alias, by contrast, would be so characterized, while the concept of it denoting a local Henry family makes little sense to me.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Online M_ONeill

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 25 February 21 03:31 GMT (UK) »
That's interesting, Wexflyer - if true, that would run counter to our current theory of James being the son of James O'Neill and Esther Downing and we may have to think again. I still suspect he is somehow related to that family though - he is very clearly linked with a number of families using a very distinctive 'Stafford' naming pattern in Dreenan

I've yet to pinpoint the particular Rose Mallon he is referring to, that might help me narrow his relations down a little more.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 25 February 21 03:33 GMT (UK) »
That's interesting, Wexflyer - if true, that would run counter to our current theory of James being the son of James O'Neill and Esther Downing and we may have to think again. I still suspect he is somehow related to that family though - he is very clearly linked with a number of families using a very distinctive 'Stafford' naming pattern in Dreenan

I've yet to pinpoint the particular Rose Mallon he is referring to, that might help me narrow his relations down a little more.

It is true. You can see it regularly in Griffith's valuation, and the associated later Valuation Office records.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 25 February 21 03:44 GMT (UK) »
That's interesting, Wexflyer - if true, that would run counter to our current theory of James being the son of James O'Neill and Esther Downing and we may have to think again.

The question I would have in my mind is who they are trying to distinguish this James O'Neill from? Perhaps the James O'Neill you are interested in, or....? Whoever this fellow was, there must have been another man of the same name in the same area, or there would be no need for this.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Online M_ONeill

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 25 February 21 04:15 GMT (UK) »
So I took a quick look at the Dreenan griffiths revision books for 1884 the year of James' death. There is a James listed as renting two acres, house and office from John Downing (John) in '84.

This land transfers to a 'widow O'Neill', with the change being made in '91 - a little bit late for the update of the land passing to Hannah, but I suppose if James died just after one revision the change may not have come in until after the next. This James does not have (Henry) appended and there are no other James O'Neills in the immediate townland.

However, there is a John O'Neill (Henry) sharing 41 acres with a number of Neill (not O'Neill) occupants. Another O'Neill (possibly 'Helen O'Neill (John)') takes over a portion of the land from John Neill (Felix) in 1890.

There is also a Henry O'Neill sharing land with a William Downing elsewhere in the townland.

Interestingly with regards to the will, the immediate neighbours of John O'neill (Henry) are a Henry family. One of the occupants is Hugh Henry, who may be one of the signed witnesses to James' will. There is also a Henry Henry present, who based on later censuses is likely Hugh's brother.

So it's a very complex, but very interesting picture. It actually seems to corroborate the idea that James O'Neill had a connection with the Downings, as well as a possible connection with the Henry's (even if only as close neighbours).