Author Topic: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?  (Read 1058 times)

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 25 February 21 04:32 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps I should add the following. I have seen examples of all of the following methods used to distinguish people of the same name in Irish records:

Joe (John), versus Joe (James) - Using father's Christian name
Joe (Of the road), versus Joe (Of the fields) -  Using location within same townland
Joe (Other townland name), versus Joe - Using location in different townland.
Joe (Blacksmith), versus Joe (Carpenter) - Using occupation
Joe Sen, versus Joe Jr - Using family relationship, or age
Joe (Red), versus Joe (Black) - Using hair color.

By contrast, I have never seen a surname used as a distinction.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline M_ONeill

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 25 February 21 04:37 GMT (UK) »
My thinking was more along the lines of a familial branch being identified by a name possibly taken from a matrilineal line. I thought it a possibility as there is a very strong local tradition of taking such a name and using it as a first or middle name (almost all of the families branching from the Dreenan Downings can be identified through their use of 'Stafford' as a first or middle name for their children, for example). I was even wondering if 'Henry Henry' was some strange application of this tradition.

However, seeing the prevalence of the appended names in the local valuation records, I don't think my idea is the likeliest explanation.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 25 February 21 04:57 GMT (UK) »
However, seeing the prevalence of the appended names in the local valuation records, I don't think my idea is the likeliest explanation.

If I may say so myself, the examples of valuation records that you quoted appear to strongly support my contention.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline M_ONeill

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 25 February 21 05:13 GMT (UK) »
If I may say so myself, the valuation record examples you quoted seem to strongly support my contention.

That's what I meant. Forgive me, a slightly poorly worded response on my part!  :)

If James' father was indeed Henry, then I need to do some rethinking on this part of the tree...


Online heywood

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 25 February 21 08:10 GMT (UK) »
May I just say that I agree with Wexflyer and that is what I meant.
We have examples similar to his:
Tom (Pat) ....
Pat (Roger) ...

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Offline M_ONeill

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 23 March 21 18:45 GMT (UK) »
Came across an interesting one of these in the Griffiths Valuation revisions for Rossgarran (sometimes written Rosegarland or Rosegarran).

There's a John Walls who always appears written as John Walls (Yankee). Now the obvious inference would be something to do with America, but I have no idea what it might be. The man in question seems to have been born sometime c1815 based on his 1898 death record.

His will survives, but sadly leaves no clue as to what link he may have had with America. He first seems to appear in the Griffiths Valuations in the 1870s, with children born in Rossgarran as early as 1864. His wife was a Mary Milligan (sometimes Milliken).

Any thoughts on this curious nickname? An American immigrant who had returned to the old ancestral townland? Rossgarran does seem to have a long history of Walls families.

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 23 March 21 20:42 GMT (UK) »
Came across an interesting one of these in the Griffiths Valuation revisions for Rossgarran (sometimes written Rosegarland or Rosegarran).

There's a John Walls who always appears written as John Walls (Yankee). Now the obvious inference would be something to do with America, but I have no idea what it might be. The man in question seems to have been born sometime c1815 based on his 1898 death record.

His will survives, but sadly leaves no clue as to what link he may have had with America. He first seems to appear in the Griffiths Valuations in the 1870s, with children born in Rossgarran as early as 1864. His wife was a Mary Milligan (sometimes Milliken).

Any thoughts on this curious nickname? An American immigrant who had returned to the old ancestral townland? Rossgarran does seem to have a long history of Walls families.

I did research on a family in Co Antrim where a man and his young wife emigrated to Pittsburgh. The wife gave birth there but died a few weeks later. The young son was sent back to Antrim to be looked after by his grandparents. He lived in the US for about 4 months and then spent the next 70 years in Antrim. He was known as “Yankee” all his life, in reference to his short stay in the US. Yankee is on his gravestone. So a nickname.
Elwyn

Offline M_ONeill

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 23 March 21 22:30 GMT (UK) »
That's fascinating, Elwyn, and largely coincides with what I'm thinking about John Walls.

Can I ask roughly when your story takes place? When it comes to travel to and from America, I'm more used to seeing examples from later eras (late 19th, early 20th century, mostly) - for someone born c1815 and only reappearing on the scene in the 1860s, it's obviously a much earlier case!

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Appended (extra) surnames in a will?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 23 March 21 22:54 GMT (UK) »
James “Yankee” Fawcett was born in 1891 in Allegheny (now Pittsburgh). He died in Belfast in 1958 and is buried in the Green Garden (a Quaker Graveyard) in Milltown, near Toome. I can send you a photo of the grave with “Yankee” on it. I tried attaching it to this post but it won’t work. If you want to see it, send me a pm with your e-mail address.
Elwyn