Author Topic: James Johnstone - My White Whale  (Read 1063 times)

Offline davidpwcrowe

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James Johnstone - My White Whale
« on: Thursday 04 March 21 02:06 GMT (UK) »
So I've been at this about a year now, starting with Family Search, and progressing to Ancestry via my local library.  I've had great sucess, with the sole exception of this guy.  I have one confirmed record, a marriage certificate I purchased from Scotland's People (attached) - and that's it.

The other clues I have are as follows:
1.  A poor law application dated January 1888 that mentions he abandoned his preganant wife & two daughters "six weeks ago"
2.  A birth certificate I purchased from Scotland's People for the illegitimate daughter the wife had three years later that states his death as occuring in Manchester in June of 1887 (contradicts #2)
3. A census record of a James Johnstone, with the profression of "Iron Puddler" (same as that on the wedding cerificate that same year) - living in Glascow (15 miles from where the wedding takes place later that year) - although the age is different 21 vs 26

What I have done:
1.  I looked at the GRO death records for the Manchester area for 1887, and even purchsed the only one remotely close to a candidate - it was not him.
2.  Looked for his parents in both Manchester & Ireland.  My great grandmother put on the Canada census that her father was born in the UK, although it should be noted she never met him, and she listed her mother as being born in Scotland.  She was famously anti-catholic, although it appears her parents had a Catholic wedding, and likely were in fact Irish
3. Researched every James Johnstone, Johnston & Johnson born between 1850-1860 in Ancestry - and so far they have been easily elimiated (wrong parents, found elsewhere in 1881 etc)

I don't sweat ancestors 200+ years old because complete data sets are not availble for those years but he lived through the sweet spot - he must be somewhere.  I can't afford to buy every record, I need fresh ideas.  Thanks

Offline Forfarian

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Re: James Johnstone - My White Whale
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 04 March 21 09:40 GMT (UK) »
1861 census in Manchester: William Johnson, 40, Millwright; Wife Rose H Johnston, 37; children including James, 6, born Manchester
Marriage in Manchester in 1843: William Johnson to Rose Hannah Astbury.
But: birth in Manchester 1854: James Johnson, mother's maiden name Astbury. So there would need to be a convincing explanation of why Rose Hannah Astbury was listed as Hannah Canan on James' marriage certificate. So that may be a red herring.

You say above that 2. contradicts #2?

The information in the parochial board record is almost entirely consistent with the information on Jessie's birth certificate - Annie may only have learned of her husband's death between January 1888, when she applied to the parochial board, and 1891, when Jessie was born. And 6 weeks ago could have been a misunderstanding or misrecording of of 6 months.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline sancti

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Re: James Johnstone - My White Whale
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 04 March 21 12:29 GMT (UK) »
The James Johnstone you have on the 1881 census is recorded as born Ireland.

Offline ev

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Re: James Johnstone - My White Whale
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 04 March 21 17:10 GMT (UK) »
Just to note-
1881 LDS Census transcription
7 & 7 1/2 Welsh Row , Old Monkland , Lanark.
Ann Griffen , 18 daur , domestic servant , born Ireland
Parents James & Ann.


ev

Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records


Offline sancti

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Re: James Johnstone - My White Whale
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 04 March 21 18:17 GMT (UK) »
What is the background to the name change Griffin/Grieve?

Offline sancti

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Re: James Johnstone - My White Whale
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 04 March 21 19:25 GMT (UK) »


Name:   Ann Griffin   
Date of Birth: Not recorded   
Date of Baptism:   15-Jul-1862
Address:   Not Recorded   Parish/District:   ROCHFORTBRIDGE
Gender:   Female   County   Co. Westmeath
Denomination:   Roman Catholic
Father:   James Griffin   Mother:   Ann Smith
         

Offline davidpwcrowe

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Re: James Johnstone - My White Whale
« Reply #6 on: Friday 05 March 21 03:59 GMT (UK) »
A few more details with regards to what I know about this branch of the family.

My Great Grandmother, Margaret Johnstone is not a reliable narater for two reasons.  1.  Her father was gone before she was born, and her mother died when she was a child.  I know this because I found her and her sister in an Industrial School in Kilmarnock in the 1901 census.  2. I know from my mother that she was virulently anti-Catholic - and she married a Scotish Presbyterian - I suspect she wanted to keep her Irish heritage hidden.

As for Jamess parents.  The closest I came was a couple, William Johnson & Hannah Coxon who married in Manchester in 1844.  However I was able to trace them up and it wasn't them.  I have researched every William & Hannah pair I could find - none were a fit.  Most importantly I scoured the 1871 census for any trace of the three of them - and every lead proved false (as oposed to unknown).  Thus  I do put weight on the 1881 Scotland census that said he was born in Ireland.  The names match, the location matches, and the very specific occupation as an Iron Puddler matches. and we know he was in Glasgow in 1881.  So my theory now is that he was born in Northern Ireland and when he moved to Manchester it was after 1871.  I have looked in Irish parish records and there are lots of candidates - but no proof since they don't have official records until 1864 and no census until 1901.

Offline scotmum

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Re: James Johnstone - My White Whale
« Reply #7 on: Friday 05 March 21 10:33 GMT (UK) »
... and no Northern Ireland until 1921  ;D.

Anyhow, have you considered going down the DNA route at all to see if any clues surface there for the chap in question or his ancestors? With so much unknown about him, you could be grasping at straws otherwise.

James and Ann must have lived near her parents initially:

JOHNSTONE
JAMES
Tenant Occupier
HOUSE WELSH ROW CALDERBANK
OLD MONKLAND
1885
VR010700112

Can you just clarify,
Quote
.    My Great Grandmother, Margaret Johnstone is not a reliable narater for two reasons.  1.  Her father was gone before she was born       
, when was this Margaret born (don't see mention of her in earler parts of thread....just mention of an Annie and Hannah Johnstone, then a Jessie Griffin?
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Offline Creasegirl

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Re: James Johnstone - My White Whale
« Reply #8 on: Friday 05 March 21 12:08 GMT (UK) »
The 1881 census will have been taken before the wedding and ages can be 5 years out.  It could be that he was working in the shipyards in govan and got a job in the monk lands area for a new foundry as sometimes the best workers got moved over.

I would try the 1891 and 1901 census in England and slightly different spellings. I think it was common for men to go AWOL like that as they couldnt get divorced and they might take labourer jobs and move around a bit.  Might be difficult though as a common name.
Ferguson (st fillans, comrie)
Garnock (lothian, fife)
Valet (london, switzerland)
Butcher (ramsgate, glasgow)
Blackbird (durham,  newcastle)
Barr (ayrshire, ireland)
Fleming (paisley)
Crone, croney ,(dumfriesshire, ireland)